"There is a school of dog behavior that suggests that treats as positive reinforcement should be used to entice our animals to do what we want them to do."

This is NOT how *I* was taught to use rewards in training! And Cesar is correct, it's not a good idea to use them as enticement. Rewards should ONLY be used for accomplishing a task, for completing it, NOT for "trying." And such treats, or toys, used for rewards should be used randomly.

Studies have shown that animals respond to rewards if they are NOT given EVERY time. Animals will work harder for a random reward than for a certain one.

But I only use such rewards for actual training situations. I do not consider establishing my dominance over my pack to be training, so I do not use even praise in that situation.

Well thank heavens! I thought it was me! I just took Signal Bear though intermediate obedience training where everyone else had "treat bags so finially I did too. (Falling into the trap yet again where I was "feeling bad because poor Signal Bear was the only one not getting treats for his reward"!!!) Never felt good about doing it either.

Last night I was coomenting to my sweetheart who STILL would rather be Signal's friend then his leader, how Signal was starting to use "cuteness", to get closer to our food while we were eating (and of course, little treats from Steve when he thought I wasn't looking. Gotta get Steve to read this blog when he gets home tonight!!! Thanks for the insight!

I took Smartie Pants (real name Trinity) to puppy preschool where they teach to treat, treat, treat. The result ended up with her jumping up and nipping me to get a treat everytime she did something right. Now I use intermitten reinforcement. Somedays it is a treat, or click, or a pat on the head. The jumping and nipping has just about stopped. But I must say her behavior is completely out of control if she doesn't get excersise first. I also find that she doesn't listen to me unless she gets some of her energy out first thus we run a bit then start the walk. I love this show. I am a single woman and my date every Friday night is with the dog whisperer! LOL!

Yet another sound bit of dog psychology from Cesar!

It makes sense, since the pack leader in the wild does not use treats, clickers or pats on the head to get the other dogs in the pack to be submissive. My dog gets a treat only while he's acting calm and submissive, he does'nt have to roll over, give me a high five or even sit, he just has to be calm.

May Cesar's teachings live on forever.

KathyB

"Cesar HELP!"

As it clearly states at the top of this blog, Cesar does not respond to questions here.

"I CANNOT get my 100lb 1 year old Rott to jump up in the back of my SUV!!!! There is nothing worng with his backside, he is in PERFECT condition, and I have seen him do it 20+ times before! He just will NOT do it when I tell him to end of story. By the third to fifth try….I get frustrated and give up and either pick his butt up and heave him in, or I take him back in the house because I am aggrivated to the point I cannot deal with him."

And everytime you do that HE has won the dominance game and proven you are not the pack leader. You need to work on the problem when it is not ESSENTIAL that he do it, like if you are leaving to take him somewhere. You need to work on it consistently, daily...maybe even twice daily.

You have 2 problems to deal with: the dominance issue - YOU need to be the pack leader, and a training issue - he needs to learn he has to "load up" when commanded.

Cesar's techniques for establishing your dominance you can learn from his video, from his shows and from his upcoming book. You need to WORK on that and work consistently and with ever constant vigilance.

As for loading in the SUV: I don't actually know how this will work on a dog, but it worked a treat on a HORSE that wouldn't load in a trailer! A friend missed a horse show because her horse WOULD NOT go in the trailer. He was always a problem, but this time 4 of us could not get him in. Since we weren't going to make it to the show anyway, we sat around and brainstormed the problem.

Since it was close to feeding time anyway by the time we were done, we used "horse psychology" on him. We put the tailer in the loading chute, put his dinner in the trailer and tied him (running the rope to the front of the trailer) so that his head was in the trailer and his front legs were *just* not touching the floor of the trailer (this one didn't have a ramp).

The we all sat nearby, just in case he panicked, and waited to see what he would do. Well, hunger finally won out and in about an hour he walked in. It took 2 or 3 days of repeats and for the rest of his life he was easy to load.

Maybe this will spark some ideas for you! Good luck!
HELP!lol KathyB

I would like to know if dogs feel any form of jealousy. Even though it is actually a human emotion, I was wondering if a dog can feel anything similar to it. I know dogs don't actually sit around thinking of hurting another animal or human because more attention is given to another than to themselves. However, for example, if a new individual is brought into the home and the original dog was used to getting all the attention and now has to share it, or worse, be almost ignored for a while, what does the dog feel? Does it feel bad or angry? My cousin who used to breed champion dalmations told me a story years ago about a couple who had a hunting-type dog that was never a problem. A baby was born into the family and when the mother was holding the child on her lap one day (I believe it was old enought to sit up), the dog came over and bit the child directly in the face. As a result, the baby required many stitches on its face. Right after it happened, the father took the dog outside and shot it. I know this might sound extreme to some people, but I guess he felt the dog could never be trusted again. My cousin said dogs don't feel jealousy like we do and don't premeditate acts of violence, but I always wondered why the animal would do something so violent. There wasn't even any warning growl or bite. I would like to know if anyone who reads Cesar's blog could make this matter clearer. I've just received Cesar's DVD and watch his show every week. My husband and I have learned so much. We are owners of an 8 year old female bull mastiff and a 3 year old male Boston terrier who get along beautifully. It's funny sometimes because he tries to be the boss but every now and then she lets him know she's a lot bigger. than him.

KathyB,

"My ex had him since he was 8 weeks old and the dog had HIM trained that when Roman put his front feet up, my ex would then lift him into the back of his truck…..completely boggles my mind that he would do that, but he has for the last 11 months! UGH!!!!!!!"

Then you are dealing with...not a training issue...but a RE-training issue. I would suggest not being quite so adamant about not using treats or rewards. In order to re-shape his behavior you might have to resort to "bribes" a few times just to get him to DO it. Once he has the idea, then you can switch to random rewards and eventually you can eliminate them if you want to.

Same like the horse, if you try that technique, he will be getting the reward (his dinner) for ACCOMPLISHING the task...so you have to be SURE he can only reach it if ALL of his feet are in the SUV.

I have two adorable and loveable Shiz-tzu's that are 8 months old and I have been trying to house break them with NO LUCK! I need some major help. I am so frustrated. I will walk them, they eliminate and then come in the house and have an accident. I have tried giving them a treat when they do their business outside as soon as they come in. I want them to be a part of our family, but I am having to resort to keeping them in the kitchen.
Any thoughts? I don't want to get rid of them, we love them and so do my children.
PLEASE HELP!
Nanci

KathyB,
I have a 5 mo. old female pit bull who would turn and run back into the house thru the dog door everytime I would be taking her and my other two other dogs in the car. I would have to go unlock the door and get her and lift her into the car to go. It only took one time of putting her leash on before we went outside and walking quickly and calmly to the car, opening the door for her to climb in without stopping. As Cesear said in one episode, like with horses, you have to visulize the result you want and move forward without thinking about any frustration or negative energy.

Hi Nanci,
House breaking smaller dogs can be difficult because most of us are overly affectionate with them, especially puppies. I know I am guilty of this behavior.
I potty train my dogs by keeping them on a leash, 7-24, for about a week. (I sleep with the loop of the leash around my ankle and the dogs sleep on the floor beside the bed.)I also establish a potty routine. With puppies I begin with regular potty breaks every 30 minutes. You can get potty training aids from the pet store that have phermones in them. The phermones are supposed to trigger the need to go potty. You can also use a scoop of dirt from a neighborhood spot frequented by dogs in your area. I always use a predetermined potty spot. After the first day you will have an idea of how often they have to go potty and adjust the routine. This way you can catch them before there are any accidents and you also establish your self as pack leader. Usually a dog will have to go after eating and a little exercise. (My dogs go every moring after brealfast and about 3 - 5 minutes of quick trotting) Also be sure to thoroughly clean any areas in the house where they have had accidents. There is a product called "Get Serious" that removes the phermones from the old potty spots. Works great! I put it directly in my carpet shampoo machine and my carpert is still white!
It takes lots of dedication and a consistant routine to house train dogs and puppies quickly but I have had great success with this method. Good Luck!

I agree with Marcie in the use of a crate and have always crate trained my dogs. One further suggestion I would make is to make sure you clean the previous accidents with a enzymatic cleaner that will get rid of the scent. If you use a regular cleaner, the dogs will return to the same spot again to re-mark it. I use "Get-Serious" available in pet stores. There are a number of different products available.

I hear it about the pack leader vrs the treat system. I would give my dogs treats for "tricks" and as soon as the goodies were gone, they'd walk away & not listen anymore!

Now, I have them do "tricks" throughout the day without rewards & they listen better. Now it takes them a little longer to walk away!

KatyB, I had a problem with one of my dogs going into his crate. I had gotten him from the dog pound & he was only used to being in a kennel. I was working & didn't have time in the morning to work with him with the crate issue. I did throw a treat in the crate & pushed, shoved, etc & got him in the crate. I then figured out how to make a "game" out if it!

When I would get ready to leave, I would yell "Who wants to go craties?", "Let's go craties" & generate a little excitement. Like the crate was the most exciting thing to do. After a little while & with a treat, he goes in his crate willingly! His command now is "Let's go craties" & he still gets a treat when he goes into his crate. Sort of like the mint on the pillow thing. By the way, he's a 64 lb Pit Bull & is very subborn & strong.

Since you're dealing with getting into the car, try to generate a little excitement with him & take him to some "doggie" places for rewards. He'll associate going into the car for some "doggie" fun & can't wait go get in!

Hi Jolene,

Kathy B makes an excellent point about Cesar's pack helping him keep grounded amidst all of the fame. He also seems to be pretty well grounded in his family life.

And, it is a wise man who knows when to be submissive to his wife! :)

I have a background in marketing, and have also noticed a little bit of the "eye-candy" factor. Hey, if it gets more men watching the show, I don't mind a little "bait and switch".

I hope some of the people shaping the show, do realise there is a large section of the viewing public who are more into science, nature, and knowledge rather than fame, fortune, and external self-esteem.

Cesar and his show are such a rare treasure in this day and age of superficiality, everybody out to make a buck, and a whole lot of very well packaged BS.

I grow so tired of people with loud voices, trying to sell me something on almost every channel. :(

If it wasn't for The National Geographic Channel and a few other nature, science, and philosophy channels, I doubt I'd even own a TV, other than to check the weather.

TV programming is often described as "escapism". Interesting that Cesar's show is the ultimate escape from most of the other programming we have to choose from!

I value these early years of "Dog Whisperer" episodes. It is a rare and special gift to the public in this day and age. I can only hope the "marketing machine" doesn't chew it to bits.

Most of his viewing public, would probably see right through it.

I was taught to use treats to initially SHAPE behavior, not to reward it. (The reward should be praise.) THis has worked well for me. One example: I got my little terrier to swim by luring him into the scary water with cheese. After a while he decided he loved swimming for its own sake. Another example: when I tried to get my Belgian shep to "swing" from front to heel position at my side, she would get confused and freaky and back away. By luring her into the correct position with a treat, she forgot her anxiety and can now do it easily on command. THis is not the same as giving a dog a treat for a command she already knows and can perform perfectly well! In this context, I think it is perfectly ok to use a really good treat to get that rottie to jump into the SUV. It will help him get over whatever is stopping him, and will eventually generalize. In fact I had to use treats for a while to get my belgian in the car after she got her toe pinched when my husband shut the back door of the wagon too quickly. It took about two weeks of treats for her to get over the negative association.

To me, treats are a "tool" in the "training toolbox", and not to be used as an entire training philosophy. I don't use them very often. I did use treats to get a three-legged boxer to use his cart. It worked great!

Treats do bring up the excitement level, cause some dogs to get pushy and demanding, and do indeed make many dogs mouthy and bitey. I rarely use them, since I want the dog I'm working with to be CALM.

I've never seen clickers, treats, and the "happy voice" make a dog LESS excited.

As far as toys go, search and rescue, scent detection and bomb sniffing dogs, might be considered obsessive over their favorite ball or toy, which is their reward for finding the correct target item. Many of these dogs did not make it in their home environment, yet are tested and chosen from shelters to perform this service, because of this high-drive, "toy" obsession.

I personally won't "condition" a dog or "shape behaviors", without clearly communicating what I want, letting a dog know where their boundaries are, and establishing leadership... especially when dealing with dominance and/or aggression issues.

As long as you start with dog psychology, communication, and leadership, "training" with treats to teach commands or get a dog's excitement level up for doing activities like agility, is fine.

But, first things, first.

JMHO :)

Debra,

This blog is the best place for those of us who use and support Cesar's principles of "leadership", to discuss his philosophies and methods, and his show.

I don't see anyone here saying food has no place at all in training, association, motivation, counter-conditioning, etc... Several of us have already shared how we do use food.

Cesar does describe ways in which his pack does earn their food and how he uses feeding time as an exercise in itself.

If you would rather be your dog's pal than his leader, use conditioning methods based on drives and motivation over clear communication, or even use human psychology instead of dog psychology, and this works for you and your dog, great!

There are quite a few dog boards and forums with some very nice people who share and support your methods and views.

I come here to discuss Cesar's principles, which include being the Pack Leader.

Deb :)

Hi Deb,

"Ditto"! :)
Well said!

this article was too cool. It makes me want to fire up my plasma tv and watch more of your programs.
Plasma TV

Good Morning Doggone/GA!!!!
Your a Godsend!!!! :D
I am thinking that I may have to start putting the seats down in the back and move the gate up to where the front seats are as the space would definetly not be big enough for my to get in and then for him to jump in (maybe thats could also be part of the problem).
I can always move the gate and stuff around if I ever have car guests, but I think I just need to make the area larger and put the seats down as he is HUGE and maybe he also needs more room.....Make it a fun place for him to be as he can't stick his head near the back seat window as I have a gate up.
You truelly are helping me a lot with what you have given me...THANK YOU!!!!!!!! :) KathyB

KathyB: I think you're on to something re: the size
of the section of the vehicle you're asking him to climb
into. If he is a huge dog, he may be judging the space
as too small, and that's what's stopping him. Just like
the shiny floor and the Great Dane.

Folks: I have always used treats in molding my dogs'
behaviour, training them to do things, etc. It
works. The problem now is that they expect the treats,
and get way too excited. I also never used to make them
earn their meals. I would just dole out the food while
they were high-energy and jumping all over the place.
Since watching Dog Whisperer, I now make them sit for
their food before I will hand it over. And I felt that
removing the treats during our car rides is now essential
because they are getting too excited expecting the treats.
My issue is what if I'm somewhere and I don't have treats?
I need them to obey the rules, treat or no treat. What
I've been doing too is sometimes giving a treat, sometimes
not, so they're not sure, and they'll behave no matter what.

I've watched people who use treats in a way that I used to think was almost tormenting their dogs, but after watching Cesar's show ... I wonder if they were just reminding the dogs who was pack leader. But I'm not sure. One man would put food in one part of the room and make his hounds (they looked like very tall Springers--??) stay right at the other side of the room until the humans finished their meal. The wait for those dogs seemed interminably long to me, as a kid, watching those dogs drool for a half hour or more. They were sure incredibly well-mannered and healthy-looking dogs though. I've also seen people put food on a dog's nose and make it wait for their command to eat it. What do you all think of these methods?

As to the toy as reward, to Debbie RBW's point, you can go to the US Dept. of State in D.C., ask to meet the security dogs and talk to their handlers about how toys are used as a reward for good work. They have a book on display about how the dogs are chosen and trained. I was surprised to learn that the dogs also get to play with the toys as much as they want to outside of work hours. They live with their handlers and the handlers' family dogs, not in kennels.

I feel that "treats" are a great way to initially teach a new behavior to a dog. Because dogs don't speak english and understand what "lay down" means the behavior initially needs to be shaped with a reinforcer which is usually food of some sort. The reinforcer has to be quickly faded out so that the dog doesn't become dependent on it or else the first time you are in a situation that the treats aren't available the dog will stop doing it reliably (this is called extinction).

I completely agree that you cannot use most human psychology on a dog because we are very different species and dogs do not have thought processes and emotions like people do. However the psychology of behaviorism is applicable to all species and you cannot completely throw that out the window.

Some behaviors are controlled by positive reinforcement and some are controlled by avoidance of a punisher (anything the animal finds aversive). Cesar uses a "correction" or "touch" when the dog does something that he doesn't agree with. The dog learns in order to avoid that correction not to do it.

Human behavior is also controlled largely by avoidance of corrections (its the only reason most people lie).

I am completely on board with Cesar's philosophy and think it makes a lot more sense to train the dog to behave to avoid a correction because it does apply more to the "pack mentality" (they don't get treats for walking nicely in line). But of course treats have a place and if you want to teach a new behavior that's the quickest way to do it.

I forgot to add....I put the back seats down and moved the gate up more so now when he looks in there it is a large space for him!!!! :) I'm just so dog gone excited!lololol KathyB

KathyB,
You have inspired me! When I get back to the beach,
I'm going to try exactly what you did today!
Congratulations on your success.

Doggone/GA,
Thanks for the info on Koehler. I'm not familiar with
him, so I'll have to check it out. I do know that
repeating the command more than once does result in
exactly what you described -- the dog just waits til
I say no 15 times LOL ha ha ha. Boy is that a hard
habit to break!

Doggone, are you in Georgia? If yes, where? I am in Gwinnett.

How true. I was dog sitting for my son's three dogs and had mine along too. As a reward for coming inside after going outside to pee or whatever, I gave them each a dog biscuit. Soon they were acting like they had to go outside but would come right back in, expecting a biscuit! I learned something about rewards right there.

www.waukeshadogparks.org

One of the "things" I've learned about the "positive" and "negative" aspects of rewards and corrections, is they function and exist on a very two dimentional plane.

Many of the positive reinforcement methods were pioneered through the study of which methods worked best for training performing animals, in a controlled environment.

Postive methods work far better than adversives and punishment when training an animal to perform a task or do a trick. These methods are well documented and proven. They work well with animals of a lower intelligence than a dog, and the same principles are applied pretty much across the board with most of the animals being "conditioned". Food is generally the primary motivator and reward. Corrections and punishment are generally not used at all, anymore.

However, when we take a social animal into our homes, as a family member, we need more than reward and punishment, in order to live with them in harmony.

This is why many dog trainers also incorporate some concept of leadership and an understanding of the social hierarchy, of the dog. "Nothing In Life Is Free" and "Leaders Initiate, Followers React", are two of these concepts that I've run across.

We also need to understand the psychology and forms of communication of any animal we live with. How were they "designed" by nature, how do they think, what body language signals do they use with each other and to try and communicate with us. And, how do they "read" us, based on how THEY think and communicate?

If I run into a stray dog on the beach. The first thing I draw on is what I know about dog psychology. The next thing I do is see what the dog's body language is communicating to me, and then I use my own body language to let the dog know who I am, and my intentions.

At this point I can drive the dog away, claim my own space and remain "neutral", or try to get the dog to join me. No training comes into play, unless I bring the dog home and teach it a command, or to perform a task.

This is one of the main reason's I find Cesar's philosophies and methods make so much sense. He starts with dog psychology, communication, and leadership.

It seems to me, when we start out with training philosophies and methods, before taking into account the psychology, communication, and natural social hierarchy of the dog, we are putting the cart before the horse.

I don't even view rewards and corrections, in the classical sense, any more!

There is always more of a focus on where I'm functioning in the "action and reaction" sequence, what I'm communicating with the dog, and simply letting the dog know what I expect from them as their Pack Leader.

For me and my own dogs, most the actual "training", just kind of happens along the way. I use very few "food rewards" or "leash corrections", anymore. Most of the leash work, has become a containment, a redirection, or a form of communication, rather than a punishment.

This is such an endlessly fascinating topic! :)

Deb

PS I would recommend sticking with Cesar's principles, rather than studying a lot of "old school" Koehler.

"PS I would recommend sticking with Cesar’s principles, rather than studying a lot of “old school” Koehler"

And I don't agree. You are talking about apples and oranges here. Koehler's methods are formal training methods and while some aspects of them can help accomplish some of the thing Cesar does, they aren't geared to that specifically.

And, I did say you don't have to use them 100%, but the philosophy of the method is useful, even if each and every tiny detail is not.

I learned a method of "food guided" traing many, many years ago (and, BTW, Koehler would not agree with it) - so many that I don't even remember who taught me, anymore! And it works very well on puppies in particular, but it works quite well also on even adults as long as they are food oriented...and even the most food disinterested dog is usually more food in-tune at dinner time!

I was taught to use a food "guide" to shape sit, down, come and stand like this (I will get to an explanation at the end):

USE NO COMMANDS! None. NADA.

To teach the sit: you hold a tiny bit of food in front of the dog's nose and then move it slowly up and back, making the dog follow it with his nose. When you get him to a certain point he will naturally sit to be more comfortable and to be able to see above his nose. The INSTANT his bottom is on the floor you give the reward.

To teach the stand: when the dog is sitting or lying down, you put the food guide in front of his nose and slowly move it away (a bit up, and away, if he is lying down) and as soon as he is on his feet he gets the food reward.

To teach the down: when he is sitting or standing, hold the guide in front of his nose and move it away and down towards the floor. If he tries to move forward place the narrow side of your hand directly at the base of his neck, just at the top of his shoulders and bear down...this will teach him to "duck" and you can use that pressure and the food to guide him into the down position. As soon as his chest is on the floor, he gets the reward.

To teach the recall: hold the food in front of his nose and move away. It is important that YOU move to differentiate this from the stand. When he moves towards you give the reward. Gradually increase the amount of distance he moves before he gets the reward. As he gets used to doing this, change the movement of your hand to a sweep from beside him, to in front of his nose and then into your body as you move away.

The idea behind this system is that it teaches the dogs the actions you want him to do, the hand signal for that command...but NO voice commands at first. The signals are:

for sit: raising you hand upward from beside your leg
for down: lowering your hand in front of the dogs face
for stand: moving your hand away from the dog's face
for recall: sweeping your hand across your body

Once the dog is reliable on the hand signals you have taught, THEN you introduce the voice command for each action, ALONG WITH the hand signal. The idea is that the VERY FIRST TIME the dog hears the voice command he obeys it CORRECTLY.

So you aren't in the position of having to make a correction right after the dog hears the voice command for the first time - thus setting up the potential for confusion.

As I said, I've used this method for YEARS and it has always worked. I once had an acquaintance who was trying to train her Saluki (remember my earlier comment about Sighounds!) and he would NOT sit, no matter how many corrections she gave. I used the "food guided" system and in about 5 minutes had his butt on the ground!

Hi Doggone/GA,

I think if someone sticks to Koehler's basic obedience books, over the professional guard dog books, they do have a lot of useful information.

I learned out of the old guard dog training book, and do not recommend that one. Have you read it?

Yes, I absolutely agree that comparing Koehler to Cesar, is apples and oranges.

"I learned out of the old guard dog training book, and do not recommend that one. Have you read it?"

Probably, but I don't remember specifically. It's been quite a while since I had to "crack the books" on dog training. I've distilled several methods into one that works for me and for my dogs, and seems to suit their breed abilities as well.

I don't train for obedience trials, for example. I teach my dogs things that make them easier to live with, are good discipline and that are useful to me.

For example, my dogs are all taught "show dog" stuff...even if they aren't actually shown. They learn to gait (trot & walk) in a straight line, to stand still and allow their feet to be placed where I want them. They learn to allow strangers to touch them all over and to look into their eyes and open their mouths.

These are all USEFUL skills, especially for a performance dog. If, for example, a dog is lame...it is much easier for a Vet to examine and evaluate a dog that can be touched anywhere, that will allow their limbs to be manipulated and that will move straight without pulling on the lead. That gives the Vet a much more balanced view of how the dog is using it's body and legs and can help pinpoint the source of the lameness.

Plus, at running events they are moved to be sure they are not lame, they are inspected for breed disqualifications and they must stand still to be measured in height.

So I teach: sit, down, stand, come - as active commands and I also teach my dogs to all lie on their sides (both sides) on a table, to move in a straight line, to not pull on the lead and to allow strangers to touch them and move their legs.

Those are the basics that all of my dogs learn.

Ewa,

This is a real treat for me, too!

I live a semi-primative and secluded life. I didn't even have a functioning computer until a couple of years ago!

The really laughable part of that, is I used to design employee training programs and write computer tech manuals, before I left the corporate world and returned to nature almost 20 years ago. This was way back, when the Commadore 64 was "hot" stuff in the PC world. :)

I never had an really in depth conversation about dogs with anyone, until I found the dog boards after I attended Cesar's seminar last April.

Thank you for your discussion Doggone/GA! It's obvious you've really given a lot of thought, and bring a lot of experience to your choice of methods.

Deb

I am thinking that one reason you don't see Cesar using treats is because he is usually not training a dog to do some new trick or behavior. He is training dogs NOT to something. You wouldn't use a reward to get a dog to stop being aggressive or dominant. THat would just encourage them to act aggressive in order to get the treat for stopping. He is teaching them to change their attitude, rather than to respond in a certain way to a certain word.

"I am thinking that one reason you don’t see Cesar using treats is because he is usually not training a dog to do some new trick or behavior. He is training dogs NOT to something. You wouldn’t use a reward to get a dog to stop being aggressive or dominant."

Exactly...but if you watch closely, sometimes, especially when he is working with a fearful dog...he will give them a quick treat when they are calm & submissive and not being fearful of whatever it is he is working on. It's not all the time, but every now & then you'll see it.

Remember, as he said in the episode of the city Viszla that was so fearful..he'll do whatever it takes to help the dog. In that episode he put the leash on the dog's tail to encourage it not to tuck it's tail under, and he said he'd never done that before! And he, first thing, let the dog go out in front of him and pull him along on his wheels...because for that dog, at that time, it was more important for the dog to move forward than it was for him to be in the subordinate position on the walk.

To Kathy B..... how are things going regarding getting your dog to jump into your SUV?
I only scanned through about half the postings on this blog so I may be repeating a suggestion you've already received but have you tried YOU getting into the SUV and then getting your dog to jump in to see you? If your dog does this successfully then start to use whatever command you intend to use to get him/her to jump into the SUV and PRAISE, PRAISE, PRAISE when the dog jumps in. Then try working your way closer to the tailgate and eventually be sitting on the edge and have the dog jumping up to get in beside you. Gradually you should be able to get out of the SUV and have your dog still respond to his verbal cue and PRAISE! Good luck!

To DoggoneGa, Thanks for taking all the time to share
your knowledge with all of us. Great stuff!
Yesterday, I read my most recent newsletter that I get
in the snail mail from an organization that I won't name
here. There was an article how to get your dog to stop
pulling once and for all. I've been using choke collars
on my two dogs since watching Dog Whisperer (actually, I
used chokes and prongs when they were younger, too but
stopped because people always would stop me and question
why -- why? so I wouldn't get pulled down on the ground
and get broken ribs and wrists that's why!) Anyhow, this
organization that publishes the newsletter does not condone
use of prong or choke collars. I've also been using the
calm, assertive approach and walk the dogs right next to
me, on either side, and we are all doing really great.
This article said to use a flat, regular buckle collar
and a 6-foot long leash, and let the dog walk in front of
you. This from a major pet organization! Now, when I
switched to the regular buckle collar and the 6-foot
leash about 2 years ago is when I started being pulled
down on the ground and injured repeatedly. This was every
time my dogs saw a strange dog -- they are greeters -- they
insist on greeting every dog. If they know the dog, they
are fine, no problems. If it's a dog they've never met,
I'm in trouble. Back to the article, it said if the dog
starts pulling, stop and tell him to come back to you.
When he comes back, start walking again.

Well, this morning, it is pouring rain here, and that
means our walk consists of staying on our street just
so that the dogs get the "routine" of exercise, and not
really exercise, exercise. They can also do their
business. I figured I would try just using their
regular collars that they're always wearing (buckle
collars) and the 6-foot leashes which I use anyway, even
though using Cesar's methods I have to gather them up
so they're about only a foot long. As I've shared on the
blog before, my Lab/Shepherd never pulls. The leash is
always slack. This article said that is your goal. They
seem to require that the dog be in front of you, which I
found astonishing!! My other dog always pulls. So, on
our very short walk on our own street with no other dogs
around, I tried this method. Every time my Lab/Coonhound
pulled I would stop, ask him to come back to me, and then
start again. Within two minutes, he was walking with a
slack leash. By the end of our walk, the two of them
were walking behind me. Go figure! Now, don't get me
wrong, I would never do this on one of our longer walks
where we meet lots of unknown dogs -- but isn't it
interesting that both methods (Cesar's and the other
one) worked within just a few minutes?! I also realized
that, because I wasn't anticipating meeting up with any
loose canines, I was much more relaxed. That could have
been the whole explanation, in fact. Any feedback on
other methods besides what we have all learned from
Cesar? When I read that article last night, I was in
disbelief that something like that should be published
(they also advocate major, big time use of treats in all
training). That could explain why we see so many people
walking with their dogs in front of them. It seems like
this is the standard method of training, according to that publication. I used treats this morning to try to get
the dogs to calm down while putting on the leashes -- that
is my next challenge! And also getting them to stay at
the door and I go out first.

Howdy Linda P!

I also live in Washington, on Whidbey Island! :)

Deb

Debbie RBW,

Howdy!!!! That's not too far. I live in Tacoma, more specifically in Spanaway.

Linda P.

K2 - you're welcome, I'm glad you found my posts useful.

"Anyhow, this organization that publishes the newsletter does not condone use of prong or choke collars. "

Any type of collar, a head halter, even an electric collar or a squirt collar are tools. They are useful used right, they can be useless used incorrectly, and they can be cruel used badly. I find advice condemning ANY training tool to be sad. The best tool for any training job is the one that gets the training done correctly and without damage to the dog. If you see a happy, willing, calm and submissive dog...you know the trainer is using WHATEVER tools he chooses CORRECTLY!

" it said if the dog starts pulling, stop and tell him to come back to you. When he comes back, start walking again"

This is nothing more than a milder version of what Koehler teaches. He has you hold a loop in your leash hand and when the dog is out in front and pulling, you release the loop, hold tightly to the end of the lead and turn quickly and go - FAST - in the opposite direction. On a big, strong dog...it can deliver quite a jolt, but the whole point is to teach the dog that if he doesn't WATCH you he doesn't know when you are about to pull that trick...and the best place to watch you from is by your leg - the classic "heel" position. (sounds like Cesar, doesn't it?)

When I am working with an "innocent" dog I don't let it get quite that firm. I let the loop slide out of my hand instead of dropping it, so the dog gets a firm collar correction, but not a real jolt.

I think Cesar is quite correct that for most dogs walking behind the pack leader is the best place, but for dogs that are already calm, submissive it isn't always totally necessary. As I outlined in my puppy training method, I work to get a dog that watches me...because the subordinate dog watches the Alpha dog, not the other way around.

Because of that initial training I have always been able to walk my dogs out in front of me. Whippets have very strong reactions to small moving objects and I prefer them to be in front where I can SEE if they are intent on something...rather than having them behind me where I *don't* see that intensity and where they can, quite easily, charge after it from behind and knock me down. Been there, DONE that!

"Any feedback on other methods besides what we have all learned from Cesar? "

I think if you get the 2 books I recommend Koehler's book and Patricia Gail Burnham's book and read them both with an open mind you'll find a LOT that melds quite well with Cesar's techinques.

KathyB,

For loading your Rottie into your SUV, try this. Do you have a pinch collar? If so, use it for the training.

Open the door of your SUV. Pat the floor of the SUV and command "Rottie (name), UP!" or something similar, in a HAPPY VOICE. Pick a command and use this same command all the time for jumping into/onto something. Command this only once. If he does not jump up, snap his collar hard enough for him to feel the correction, minimum two times, upward toward where you want him to go. At the same time you are snapping (correcting), say "NO! NO!". Then say "Rottie, UP!" again, patting the floor of the SUV. If he still refuses, snap and say "NO!" until he jumps into the SUV. When he does, say "Good Boy UP! Good Boy UP!" with lots of praise and petting.

Does anyone have any ideas to stop our Lab from digging holes? She never does it when we're out with her. But if we're not watching for 2 minutes, she'll be digging. If I can't catch her in the act, how do I correct this problem??

DoggoneGA,
Interesting what you said about the Whippets being in
front of you. A few weeks ago, I posted a question on
this blog should I be concerned if my Lab/Shepherd walks
in front of me, even though his leash is always slack?
People replied that he should never walk in front of me.
I hardly have any problems with him, unless I'm walking
both dogs and then they tend to "feed" off each other's
energy. My Lab/Coonhound always has to be beside me
because he drags me down on the ground. I feel better
about letting the Lab/Shepherd go in front once in a while
after seeing what you said about the Whippets. I know
what you mean about seeing if they're intent on something.
They both have a bit of sight-hound in them.

About "reacting" behaviour I read about this in the
same newsletter I mentioned before. My dogs are NUTS
in the a.m. when I try to put the leashes on them for our
walk. I tried letting them run loose first, but they
got into some trouble so I can't do that anymore. It
didn't work anyway. As soon as I pick up a leash, they
"react" -- what in heaven's name can I do to calm them
down? Every day, I think, if only this could be on Cesar's
show, viewers would be freaking out. My Lab/Coonhound
stands on his hind legs and jumps around -- he is taller
than me when he does it. The Lab/Shepherd jumps as high
as he can, all fours, like he's doing tricks, and barks
incessantly, starting when I pick up my shoes. I worry
about it disturbing other people (boyfriend who sleeps
later than me; neighbors, etc.) I actually think it's
kinda cute, but I know it HAS TO stop. How do I get them
calm/submissive when they know it's time for our walk?
I've tried everything I can think of. I've even seen
Cesar show people on DW, but I just can't get it to happen.

Great advice about the leashes! I will do that!
You are right, the only time I ever pick up the leashes
is when we're going to go somewhere. I never just move
them while cleaning or what-ever.

My Lab/Shepherd picks up my shoes and runs around
the house with one in his mouth when we're getting ready
for walks. The barking that he does is the worst part
of all this -- the jumping isn't as bad as the barking.
Tonight, I just let him keep the shoe in his mouth while
I put the leash on. He was actually quite calm. Not
completely calm/submissive, but certainly calm-ER. Maybe
letting him hold a shoe/bone in his mouth to stop the barking would help ??? When we returned (feeding time), he
only barked one time! Usually the barking starts again
at feeding time (yes, I am guilty, I taught him this as
a pup -- it was cute then LOL). I did the Cesar CHHHT
and pointed at him and walked toward him. He only barked
once. I praised him big-time and gave him the food.
Hope we can keep it up!

Doggone/GA,
Another thing my trainer taught me about the freak out over the leach collar thing...he told me to go ahead and put on his collar and after a few minutes take it off and hang it back up. That evey time he see's me with it, doesn't mean he is going anywhere. Seemed to work pretty well, but to be honest I am using more of Cesar techniques!lol

I have noticed that mine is getting "mouthy" more....the worst time is in my dressing room when I am getting ready. I have a large sheepskin (fake of course) rug that he just goes crazy over, rolls around in it and just turns into a giant puppy!lol Anyways, he starts playing with his toy and then I become his toy...or at least my feet do!hahahaa
Not sure how to handle this one as he is playing but I do use the hand tech. and ssssht noise, which then because he is in play mode he then starts getting "mouthy" with my hand. KathyB

This anti-mouthing technique worked great for my puppy. The breeder used it, and we reinforced it. The dog I got from her was the only puppy I ever knew who did not hurt kids with those needle sharp teeth! She (the breeder) told us that whenever the pup gets your hand in her mouth you should stick your fingers farther in and press down on the back of her tongue. Now the pup is trying as hard as she can to get that finger out of her mouth. Ugh! This is uncomfortable, she is thinking. I'm not gonna do this again. (Of course you let her succeed after a few seconds.)

The other method of holding the muzzle closed never worked for me. As soon as you release, there go those flashing jaws again. THey think it's a great game.

DoggoneGa, Thank you so much for the advice yesterday!
I took the leashes off the peg in the kitchen
immediately after I logged off here, and kept them with me
on the couch all night while reading/watching TV. The
dogs are calm & asleep at that point of the day anyway,
so after a few minutes, I put the leashes on them (they
had been snoozing). Each got a teensy bit excited, but
then relaxed again. I kept the leashes on them for
about an hour. Took them off, sat with the leashes in
my possession again, and then put them on again for
about another hour. When I went to bed, I took the
leashes in the bedroom with me, and kept the leashes on
the end of the bed. This morning, when I opened the
bedroom door, I had the leashes already in hand. They
were excited as they always are first thing in the a.m.
but I put the leashes on them and then made them wear
them around the house for about 15 minutes while I got
ready for our walk. It is definitely working. I will
keep doing it for sure. One thing is that we do our
walk as the absolute FIRST THING each morning. Wish
there was some other way, but with time constraints it's
difficult to change that.

As for the shoe thing -- he's been running around the
house with one of my shoes in his mouth every morning
for 6 years. It makes me laugh first thing every
morning it is so funny! I know he's trying to tell me
"take me for a walk!!" He just loves our walks! He
drops the shoe after a few minutes (and I usually put it
on if that's the pair I'm going to wear!). He doesn't
"possess" my shoes, and I can take them away any time.
I made him turn things over to me early on because he
had shown some dominance over holding things in his mouth
when he was a pup. So I had to teach him that I can take
anything out of his mouth any time. He's really good
about it. I will try the idea with the toy as a training
tool to stop him from barking. I bet it will work.
Also just stepping towards him, looking him in the eye,
pointing and saying "CHHH" or "NO" or using "the bite"
works too. But I have to keep repeating it, which is
probably not good! Thanks again for your advice!

K2 - sound like you're on the right track! Congratulations!

I'm so sad to see there's such a misunderstanding about what reward training/operant conditioning is. You can train any animal to do anything it is physically capable of doing with operant conditioning. (clicker training is operant conditioning with a marker signal) Your reward is anything the dog will work for. That may be food for some dogs, toys, the opportunity to go in the pool, the opportunity to jump up in the air when asked, the opportunity to go outside. There are two basic ways to learn - the dog is going *toward* something he wants or he's *avoiding* consequences he doesn't want. That's pretty much it. You really don't need to get all muddled in "pack mentality" and "dominance theory". It's not necessary, and in some cases that kind of mysticism can actually slow down the training process. There have been guide dogs, hearing dogs, competition obedience dogs (champions), agility dogs, zoo animals, search and rescue dogs and countless companion dogs who have never experienced a 'leash pop', who've never been growled at by their owners, and do their jobs wonderfully, and reliably. They've been trained with positive reinforcement, their trainers never "get tough" with them. And no, not all of them were 'happy go lucky' dogs. I'm so sad that the impression people have of training with rewards is that you're bribing the dogs. That really couldn't be further from the truth. I'd encourage anyone who's interested to check out Karen Pryor's website. Find training help from veterinary behaviorist, or a good clicker trainer (it *can* be done poorly, buyer beward).

"More up to date information suggests that dogs unsure of their status in a group are the ones who will be most confrontational – not the alphas. "

And right there...in your own words...is the CORE of Cesar Millan's techniques. He is NOT "training" dogs...he is teaching PEOPLE how to give their dogs a place, a STATUS, in the world they live in...that of a subordinate animal to the leader..the person.

I base my trust in what he does by the DOGS. I see in his shows the change in their body language and in their faces. I see the relief, and the relaxation he gives them when they are in an established status and they KNOW what that status is.

Your long and involved rant on dog training totally misses the point of what Cesar Millan does...fix the problems with the dog's PEOPLE.

Monica Oesterling,
Your VERY long reply on this blog (Cesars btw) I just couldn't read it....veeeeeerrrrrryyyyy looooooooooongggg...and what made me STOP reading it was THIS sentence:

"PLEASE READ THE MOST UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON DOG BEHAVIOR which Ceasar often disregards!"

People come here who have gained knowledge and understanding of their behavior so they can better meet the needs of their animals. I also see that CESAR has a pack of over 40+ animals that would normally have been put down (Rotts, Pitbulls, Dobermans) had he NOT come to their rescue and in my humble opinion...anyone who can have a pack of 40+ dogs and ALL of them are well behaved, balanced, in harmony with each other, and all in one accord, when they were at kill shelters DEFINETLY gets my attention!!!!!

If you don't like his technique...change the channel...don't come to HIS website and bash him...thats not what it's here for is for your personal agenda...it's here for those of us who DO get it and who ARE benefiting it. Go to the websites you agree with and just be happy! :)

ps:....
GO CESAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) KathyB

Doggone/GA,
I have a question (or two, lol) for you...Roman follows me EVERYWHERE...and I mean EVERYWHERE (if you get my drift lol...I do not close him out of any room I am in when I'm home). This morning I did what you said with the mouthing thing and it's weird but he made a little yelp sound, so I have no idea what that was about as he is a 100+ rott and I KNOW I could not have hurt him when I pulled him down by his collar when he started "mouthing" my hand.

My question....when I happen to be sitting in the bathroom he will use his paw and just set it on my knee....my vet wants me to touch his paws alot and play with his paws alot because when he tried to clip his nails Roman refused to let him, so my vet wants his paws used to being touched and "played" with. So I guess we have kind of made a game of it him & I....he will put his paw up on me and I will then hold it and rub it, etc. as it is kind of doing what the vet needs me to do. Why is him putting his paw on me a bad thing all the time??? If I find it bad when he is doing it at other times I immediatly correct the behavior, but at other times I kinda need him to let me or play with me with his paws to gain the touching of them as not a bad thing for the vet.

The other thing I am working with him on is laying ON him when he is laying down or resting, as the vet cannot hold him down or Roman refuses to be held down, so when he is calm and relaxed I will go over and just lay on him, while loving on him until he relaxes and just enjoys it. At first he puts up a tad of a fight...not much of one, just tries to have his front or back leg on top of me, but once we are past that he will lay there and just enjoy being loved on. Do you think I am doing that right or do you have any suggestions???
KathyB
PS: As of today we now have the walk DOWN PAT! :) :) :) yes I am very happy about that!lol

Doggone/GA,
Again I must say THANK YOU!!!!! :D
You have given me more ways to teach myself the things I need, to help be the "boss"!lol

Can you tell me why you think he does that??? Why does he put his paw up like that???....I have "heard" that Rotts are very pawzy or like to use their paws alot....old wives tale??? I am curious as to what he is thinking when he uses his paw and what it means in HIS head???

He definitley does it at other times that he gets corrected, so I know there is a reason why he is doing it, just can't figure out how to think like a dog!hahahahaaa
KathyB

Doggone/GA,
Thank You....very interesting and knowledgable!
I just could not for the life of me figure out why he did that in the bathroom...He is always in a calm/submissive frame of mind when he is doing it, when he does it in the bathroom with me...sitting down, ears down, head a little lowered so I was confused....
now when he does it when I am on the couch or when a guest or my daughter is home the energy he is showing is different....ears up, standing up, full of energy or excitement, he is immediatly corrected until he is away from the couch, the guest, etc. and laying down. He is VERY strong willed, so the couch is a battle (shoot some things like playing, how he reacts when I am taking his collar off after a walk is a battle!lololol....he definetly keeps me busy!!!!) that is constant and is always a work on my part...I have just bought a chaise lounge and I have immediatly set the boundry that it's MY zone and he knows not to even bother me, but the couch is another story!lol Thanks Again....You are a true asset to this board my friend! :D KathyB

Doggone/GA ,
Your are more than welcome for the compliment!!!....You are ALWAYS helpful and always truthful and honest about how you or what you think on a particular subject!

There are so many wonderful individuals on this board!!!....Isn't it amazing how wonderful good dog owners are! :)
I just feel very priveledged to be here with all of you and walk our journey's together with our furry buddies!! :)

He doesn't seem confused....just normal ol Roman...he even lays on the floor in my tiny bathroom when I'm in the shower....he cracks me UP with some of the stuff he does...just makes me smile a lot!lololololol KathyB

KathyB,

Boy, can I understand about the feet issue!!!!! My dog has the same issues. Lets put it this way, the last time I took him to the vets to clip his nails, he expressed his anal glands (oh the smell), he peed and then he pooped. All this added with all the growling, barking, and whining with it. He got this way because his rear left leg was broken and since then he has had kaniption fits when you touch his legs. In the last couple of weeks he has gotten so much better. At any time I will go up to him and pick up his paw and hold it. I've even gone as far as putting him in the bathtub (where he is ultra submissive) and pick up his paws. I think I'm gonna introduce him to the clippers soon. Probably just put it in front of his face and just let him see it a few times. After that probably will start putting them in my hands and squeezing the handles. Then try to clip his nails. Boy, I've got some work to do!!

Good luck with your dog's feet Kathy!

Doggone/GA....don't mean to keep askin or buggin you!lol (or anybody else),
Question Please (yup another one!lol),

I mentioned it in post #99 , but this morning I did what you said with the mouthing thing and it’s weird but he made a little yelp sound, so I have no idea what that was about as he is a 100+ rott and I KNOW I could not have hurt him when I pulled him down by his collar when he started “mouthing” my hand. Whats up with that?????? KathyB

Gosh, I wish I had picked a fake name... Sorry to stir up trouble folks... I think we are all coming from a place where we LOVE our dogs and want what's best for them and we want to understand them. I simply have so many people coming to me saying things like, "My dog is trying to dominate me" or "My dog is trying to be alpha." WHY??? I looked for actual studies on "dominance" and "alpha" because I wanted to understand more. I found out there isn't much out there in the way of science but I found plenty of myth and legend. I did find an interesting telecourse conducted by Jean Donaldson called Dominance: Anatomy of a Mind Virus. This was a juicy morsel of much desired information.
My fear is this: The general public has really latched on to words like "alpha" "dominance" "aggression" "pack" etc. This creates such a slippery slope because I have found many people who think if thier dog is growling or biting to become dominant. (In many cases, it just that the dog is fearful or or or???) If we are going to use such words to inform the general public about dog behavior, shouldn't there be research or science to back it up? I only ask because I have seen lots of dogs who were abused and shut down in the name of "dominance" and humans becoming "pack leader." I will say if we can all learn to work together to keep dogs out of shelters and in our homes, then what a wonderful world it would be. Maybe I'm just hung up on symantics?

Monica,

I'm always glad to talk a little "dog".

I wonder about training tips like "time outs", "trading for higher value items", or "yelping 'ouch', when your puppy bites you"...Don't these all seem based on human psychology, not dog psychology?

Aren't the words "dominant" and "alpha", the generally accepted scientific terms, which are used when describing a Pack Leader, in the canine world?

Hundred's of studies about chickens and "pecking order", and almost none about dogs? Ask someone who grew up with a pack of dogs and works with a pack of 40 dogs on a daily basis, what they've learned. There's your study.

Mother Nature doesn't hand out PHDs to her graduates.

I'm sorry, but since you don't agree with Cesar's methods, and recommend the APDT site to anyone reading this blog who is looking for a trainer, I have to wonder if you are sending people to trainers who also disagree with Cesar's methods.

Does the APDT openly support the work Cesar is doing? Do they have a code of ethics regarding conduct towards trainers who use a different philosophy from the APDT?

The International Association of Canine Professionals, (IACP), might be a better bet for those interested in finding a trainer in their area, who supports Cesar's work and teachings. This is the organization recommended on his site.

I am not a member of either of these organizations.

IMO, there is a huge difference between "Showing them who's boss!" and "Follow the Leader". If you pay close attention...you'll "get it". :)

Deb

Good Morning Monica Oesterling,
Let me just say this....being a flat out Jesus Freak, I come across people who say to me PROVE IT all the time....the signs are all around us yet some people just don't want to see it.

Cesar has PROVED it as I said in my earlier post as he has over 50 (I think its over 50 now since hurricane Katrina) dogs, all from kill shelters, that were aggressive, mean, possibly killed other animals and about to be killed and he has made them calm, submissive, happy dogs....thats proof enough for me! Peace & Love! :) KathyB

Good Morning All!!! :)

Question about "the walk"....when I'm walking Roman his head is down, ears back and down and he really just looks like he's having no fun at all!lol However when we did NOT apply Cesar's & my trainers method of walking his ears were up, head high and I was being drug all over the world!hahahaaa

I guess I am just asking for reassurance that YES his outside behavior is a sign that he is just walking but is still happy on our walks. I use certain words that trigger a wanted behavior like "sniff" means free so that he may now sniff around and stuff but only right around the area we are walking.. "Free" means he has full rain of the leash and can go as far out as the leash (6') but no pulling on me.

He is now always watching me as we are walking and will sometimes come very close to me and touch my hand with his face (not mouth) and I will gently touch/rub the area in front and to the side of his nose for about a second or two...don't know what that means, but he does it lately.

I try to catch how the dogs look when Cesar is working/walking with them on a walk and I have noticed that some walk like mine but he (Cesar) is really working with a pretty intense dog at first....I guess I am just unsure that I am doing stuff right and want to make sure all is well in MY training.lol KathyB

Good Morning Kate S.!!!!
Thank you for your insight....I will look into the cost and types of ramps that are available and start now while he is just 12 months old, rather than wait until later.

I so appreciate all of you and again thank you for your advice!! :) KathyB

KathyB,

My dog probably wouldn't do much until I pick up the clippers and start making noises with them. Thats where things will get a bit interesting to say the least! In #117 where you say he touches your hand with his face, I can't believe you said that! My dog has done the same thing and for the life of me, I can't figure why. But I have remembered every time that it has happened I was "in the zone". I kinda concluded that it is his way of saying thanks for walking me. I give him a scratch on the head and we keep on going.

KathyB,

I know...it is the sweetest thing but strange! I also wanna stop and hug him (its the human thing to wanna do), but I know that the best thing is to keep on going because the continuing of the walk "in the zone" is the "hug".

Why??? Jus't like you...don't know. Linda

KathyB,

Ditto!!!

Linda P. & k2,
Great question to ask Cesar tonight!lol :) KathyB

Hi Cesar,

I watch your show every week, but there is one problem I have with one of my beagles. I have had her from 8 weeks old, but if I take her out of my house or yard and bring her to someone else's house or yard or a place she is not familiar with, she whines, pants and has extreme anxiety the whole time. She then forwards it to another one of my beagles that would not normally behave like that. What can I do to get her out of this annoying habit.

Sandi

Kathy B. Good luck with the ramp should you find one and decide to use it. Sounds like you and your dog are learning together. When two come together as one and work as a team it is a beautiful thing. He is lucky to have you. Kate S. P.S. If you do ramp your dog, start out low and work up to full height. Use you treats to encourage him along, then fade them out.k

LINDA P & K2!!!!!!
I have our answer to the dog touching our hand during the walk from Doggone GA!!!! Here iit is!:

3. A few of us on your blog have the same thing happening and we have NO IDEA what it means….as we are walking, our dogs will sometimes come very close to me/us and touch my/our hand with his/their face (not mouth) and I (personally) will gently touch/rub the area in front and to the side of his nose for about a second or two…we don’t know what it means, but there are a few of us on the blog, who’s dogs do it. What does it mean? It’s the sweetest thing & I would LOVE to stop and just hug him, but I know that would be bad!lol We are ALL hoping it means something good!lololol

If you watch tonight’s episode again, the part with the older women and the German Shepherd…pay attention to her OTHER dogs, and you will see, a couple of times, where one of them goes up to another and licks him on the mouth. That is the kind of greeting a subordinate dog does to a dominate one. Since your dog can’t reach your mouth, he touches your hand - which is, pardon the pun , HANDY!

Kathy B. Allright girl!! Way to go! Your opening up a great big world for you and your dog. Enjoy!! Kate S

Kate S.,
Thank you!!!! :D I am starting to have a blast with him & his jumping up in the back of the SUV definitley gives us more ability to experience new things!!! I'm VERY proud of him!

John R,
Thanks again for some more great info!!! The couch is a constant battle for when I have guests...heck having guests is a constant battle in itself, as he LOVES people and just wants to be paid attention to.
I work with him constantly while I have guests here, so that is a work in progress! I am just now watching the episode (I dvr'd it) on the Buvie (sp?) and his jumping on people and exitement and also the dog that belongs to the photographer who spazs at new company/knocking at the door....its helping and giving me a TON of info!!!

Thanks Everyone and I hope your all having a great weekend!!! :) KathyB

Hello Cesar:
My husband and I watch your show whenever we can. I am wondering if their is any help for out dog, as I have never seen this problem on your show or in your video. Our problem is, we have a dog that marks in our house. He is a 2 1/2 year old Westie/Chihuahua mix. We also have a 6 yr. old Doberman, (whom we rescued) and a 9 month old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Jedi (the marking dog) knows we will say "NO" so he NEVER marks in front of us, unless he is outside. He is not neutered. However, I have heard that once they start marking, neutering will not help. I have never ever had this problem with a dog before.

Thanks for any help that may be offered.
Shalom,
Rae Lynn

As usual, the problems here are with the people and lack of appropriate implementation, not the technique. It's very true that many trainers get so hung up on techniques that they put the cart before the horse by ignoring the all important calm assertive leadership role all handlers must have to be effective but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. No doubt about it - treats (or any other technique) in a handler who does not first have the fundamental "calm assertive" leadership energy Ceaser talks about are neither effective nor representative of a proper "positive reinforcement" technique and they are NOT mutually exclusive with Ceasars philosphy when appropriately applied - and not generally used to correct "problem" behaviors or psychological issues anyway - certainly not agression. There is a LOT of COMPLETELY misguided and inaccurate information about "positive reinforcement" on this discussion page and other places and I strongly encourage nay sayers to become more properly informed about APPROPRIATE implementation of positive reinforcement before making such sweeping generalizations. I am a big fan of Ceasars and don't see any conflict - especially not in his own statement which inspired this discussion - between his methods and philosophy and APPROPRIATE implementation of postiive reinforcement techniques. Please don't be so quick to judge out of ignorance or such a tiny bit of completely misguided information or inappropriate use and misunderstanding of properly implemented positive reinforcement.

Deb:
I am a college Psycholog professor. There is absolutely a difference in reinforcement. And, yes, there is negative reinforcement and there is positive punishment. But as I teach my students -- you do not go by the words Positive and Negative.

Reinforcement is any stimulus that will increase the behavior that preceded it.

Postive Reinforcement = Adding something pleasant. So, your dog comes when you call. You reinforce him, with affection, recognition "good dog" or food.

Negative reinforcement = Taking away something unpleasant that will increase the behavior that preceded it. E.G. In your car the noise made until you put your seatbelt on. That noise (unpleasant) will increase the chances that you will put your seatbelt on again and again.

Punishment is any stimulus that serves to decrease the behavior that preceded it.

Positive punishment = Adding an aversive/unpleasant stimulus. This would include scolding, adding chores for a child, hitting (though never recommended). In the case of the dog (the simulation bite).

Negative reinforcement = Taking away something pleasant from the organism. (Taking away a kid's favorite toy, a teen's car keys. Taking away a dog's opportunity to be with the pack.

The main points to remember is that Postive does not mean good nor bad in Reinforcement or Punishment. Positive means you add something (as cited in my examples). Nor does negative mean good or bad. It means taking something away.

I hope this helps your understanding of Positive Reinforcement. In a pack the leader uses it. The leader and Moms give nudges of affection. The bites are positive punishment, ostracizing is negative punishment.

Shalom,
Rae

Rae Lynn,

Personally, I think neutoring does help. Your dog has come into adulthood, and with his "juices" flowing, he is not only marking as a dominant behavior, but also to advertise his scent to rivals and potential partners. JMO.

I would get him neutored, and keep a leash on him, and keep him in sight. I'll bet the little guy is fast, too!

Use a verbal boundary sound, I use "eh-eh' or "hey", the second he homes in on one of his marking spots, from which you've hopefully removed the previous marking odor.

If he gets too far and raises his leg, use "hey", move towards him, make eye contact,(no anger), and throw in a little "positive punishment" via the leash, as Cesar demonstrates on his show. Just enough to make your point.

Some Terriers and terrier mixes can be very dominant and determined!

Everything in your home is yours, as the Pack Leader. Folowers do not mark or claim the Pack Leaders "stuff", period. :)

Following all of Cesar's basic guidelines, including the daily leadership walk is very important. Don't let your dogs mark and poop, until at least 15 minutes into the walk, then give them a release word and a break to do what they need to do.

If during the walk, you let your dog lead, and follow your dog as he is just marking here and there, you will be acting like a follower, and this will lower your chances of success in the housemarking issues, which are really dominance issues.

There could also be something going on between your dogs, which is all the more reason to work on being the leader.

It's always hard to know everything, without being there to observe!

Good luck!

Deb

Marie, you have, basically, the same problem as a lot of other people...you are not the pack leader. And you need to work on your timing. Don't wait for your dog to "fixate" on another dog...the instant you see him pause you need to "bite" him, move him away, get his attention on you.

And I know it's not the thing these days to recommend Koehler, but I *strongly* urge you to get William Koehler's "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" - he will give you techniques and structured training to get your dog under control.

His technique for teaching the dog to walk on a lead is different from Cesar's but if you follow it faithfully you will achieve the same result: a dog that KNOWS *you* are the pack leader.

I know this is not cesar but i need some help!
I have a Lab, shepherd, shep, pit etcc... mix pup thats turning a yr old next mth and she is very stubborn! She knows how to sit, come, laydown, bow n etc.. but yet she doesnt wanna listen. She knows it aggrivates us when she barks for no reason n when she is barking at something that she should be barking at she doesn't stop when you tell her its ok. When we tell her to sit, laydown, come n stop jumping n stop barking she looks at you n does it on purpose n she ignores us. She is one of the most stubborn dogs than my other dogs back at mah parents house!

So what should I do, I can not afford a training class because they are way to expensive for the little time they offer.

"She knows it aggrivates us when she barks for no reason n when she is barking at something that she should be barking at she doesn’t stop when you tell her its ok"

Here is the essence of your problem. She doesn't listen when you say it's "OK" because saying it's OK is giving her permission to KEEP ON barking. You need to get up, go to her and STOP her from barking. Put a colla and lead on her if necessary, correct her, distract her, make her lie down and become calm submissive.

As Deb said - you need to watch Cesar's show as often as possible, and maybe even watch the same ones several times.

Since your dog know so many commands, it's obvious you can do a good job training...now you just need to learn how to both correct her for disobeying AND learn how to become the dominant one in your pack.

I love the Dog Whisperer show and think Cesar is a jewel. I wish we all could have some one on one time with him but we can not so I was wondering if someone out there had some ideas to help my dog Bella. I have a 2 year old, 6 1/2 pound Papillon that will not quit running around in circles when I am getting ready for work, etc. She has been to several obedience classes and is a really well behaved dog except for the running in circles. I walk her daily, have recently tried to give her "a job" of bringing me my shoes and I have tried the "bite - shhh" approach that Cesar recomends but she stops for a minute then starts it all over again. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Thanks, Bella's mom and pack leader!

"I have a 2 year old, 6 1/2 pound Papillon that will not quit running around in circles when I am getting ready for work, etc. She has been to several obedience classes and is a really well behaved dog except for the running in circles. I walk her daily, have recently tried to give her “a job” of bringing me my shoes and I have tried the “bite - shhh” approach that Cesar recomends but she stops for a minute then starts it all over again. If you have any ideas, please let me know"

You can't just do it once...you have to keep at it. Maybe get up earlier so you have time to work on it. Put a leash on her too, so you have that much more control. EVERYTIME she starts, you have to interupt her...EVERYtime.

So the first few days might be a bit over the top...you might want to start on a weekend, doing your usual "I'm leaving for the day" routine...but keeping her constantly under your control.

I can't remember which episode it was, but in his first season Cesar dealt with a dog that had EXACTLY this same problem!

" saw the show where the dog had this problem; however, it was a bigger, working type dog that was bored and Cesar remedied the problem by adding more walks while making the dog carry her own backpack"

That's not the one I'm thinking of...I think you saw the one where the German Shepherd was obessive about chasing it's tail. The one I am thinking of was a small dog living in an apartment...looked like a Shih Tzu cross, maybe.

But the backpack idea is not limited to big dogs! If you look around you can buy, or maybe even make, a tiny backpack for you dog and put some small weight in it. Dogs are dogs, you just have to scale the idea to the size of your dog!

Hi Doggone/GA:

I have not seen the episode about the Shih Tzu. Was it in the first season? If so, I will buy the entire first season. You are so helpful.

I have a dog and my roommate has a dog as well. When the two dogs play together my roommate's dog grawls and shows its teeth. I do not like this behavior so I try to break it up. However every time I break it up my roommate's dog urinates all over the place even if I don't actually touch it. How do I teach the other dog not to bite mine and not to urinate all over the place?

i have a 10 month old red nose pit mix hes really really hyper and really big everytime we let him out of his cage he like to run and jump all over people he trys to hump people that come near him he also wines and barks alot when left alone what could i possibly do about this dog i want to calm him down casue i have a 2 ear old and a baby on the way help me please

KathyB says:

Cesar HELP!
I CANNOT get my 100lb 1 year old Rott to jump up in the back of my SUV!!!! There is nothing worng with his backside, he is in PERFECT condition, and I have seen him do it 20+ times before! He just will NOT do it when I tell him to end of story. By the third to fifth try….I get frustrated and give up and either pick his butt up and heave him in, or I take him back in the house because I am aggrivated to the point I cannot deal with him.

My Response:
Please be careful making a young Rottie jump up. This can cause some shoulder injuries at his age. Although he looks full grown he isn't his bones are still growning and muscles around the bones. If you teach him to put his feet up then he is responding to a command. Unless you have had his shoulders and hips x-rays done then you don't know for certain that it may be not be uncomfortable for him to jump up into the SUV. It really would be better for the dog to have a ramp because dogs this big can develop elbow problems when they jump before they are two years old.

~Help!!~

I have a year and half old Schnoodle puppy ( Half Schnauzer and poodle puppy) Named Pippin and no matter what I do I can not get her to allow me to teach her any tricks. About 2 weeks ago I taught her to roll over, but since then when ever I try to get her to sit or laydown or anything all she does is 'roll-over' what should I do? Is it that she doesnt really know what 'roll over' is but I treated her for it earlier so she thinks if she does it then she will get the prize?? Please help me i'm quite frustrated!

We have 2 Aussie sisters and I've faithfully watched and used so many ideas from the show! We strive daily to be PACK LEADER and try to be 100% consistant with any training. With that said, we too have had some challenges...we found that the pinch collar helped when 1 pup would lunge at bicycles, cats, etc. We found that weighted backpacks for BOTH girls helped tremendously and we bought them online for about $20 each! We found that walking them individually for 30 minutes was remarkable for their energy levels. We found the attitude of PACK LEADER was huge when challenges arose. But most of all, we found that we felt confident in becoming better dog owners due to Cesar's Way...gratefully...a Sacramento pack!

I just adopted a 4 year old Siberian Huskey/German Shephard. She has been an outside dog for the past 3 years. We are trying to domesticate her. She is housebroken, knows to sit, shake hands, and stay off of furniture. We have had her less than a week.

Our main problem with her is she has a natural hunting instinct and she is very strong and quick. Being a petite woman, I have a difficult time handling her when she "attacks."

I have signed her up for obedience classes. Until they start does anyone have suggestions or experience with this type of situation.

Thanks,
Nancy

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My wife and I have a Toy poodle and we are having avery hard time house breaking her. She will not potty on a pad in fact she will pull the pad back and do her business and then pull it back or we will bring her outside where she will walk around for a while but when we bring her back inside she will void. This is getting to the point where we are thinkeng about getting rid of her we need help what can we do.