I agree with this, up to THIS point: that as long as a human is there ALL the dogs are "#2"...but if you leave them as a group for any length of time, they WILL begin to fall into a "pecking order" and you can't stop it. It's part of their nature.

I have 10 dogs and I no longer leave them alone in a large group, because I have had serious "kennel fights" in the past. I now leave them in pairs - because IF a fight occurs it can only be a 2 dog fight...they can't "gang" up on the weakest fighter.

But when I am at home and they are with me, yes, they are all equally #2.

Evie,
Do you mean the episode with "Greta & Hoss" the mother and son duo? He basically claimed the sofa that Hoss would stand on to go nuts at the people and dogs that walked past the house. Basically, just correctly the dog each time he barked. Am I talking about the right episode?

-Kate

toppdog,

Your post isn't long for this board and good riddence when it happens.

Thanks, Cesar, for clearing this up for me. I have read in many publications that you must respect the pack position of your dogs and to carefully observe them to be sure you get it right. After discovering you, this didn't seem to make sense anymore. Now, the first one who sits nicely in front of me gets the cookie first.

I know that this kind of information is not wanted necessarily on this weblog, but it IS the heart and soul of what Cesar is about and has fought for all his life to help.

I have posted this information about Knuckles plight, plea and links to the responsible governmnet offices, on our Dog Whisperer List (open archive), found in the Yahoo email groups, and invite any one else who finds them selves in this postion, fighting for their dogs who are also unjustly charged, or with information which can help save these dogs to make sure to let me or us know (on the list) so we can also support!

Our voices count and by working together on so many levels we already are making differences where we live!

Evie, that is exactly what Cesar says, in the episode about Hoss, he was very clear that the owner had to take back ALL the spaces the dog considered as his, so no couch no door, no window, etc. And every time - it is probably going to be anoying at first but stick with-it!

In response to the question about dogfights. They progress very slowly if you see the warning signs.

Step one is locking eye contact, and stiff, still postures. (This is hard for your dog to accomplish if you keep walking.) Often this is where vocalization begins. Step two is the dogs get closer to each other and usually attempt to place one part of the body over the other dog. (Again, very hard for either dog if one dog is continuing to walk.) Then, step three is where the dogs will begin to escalate dominance gestures. If one dog submits, the fight ends. (This is where the fight becomes out of control for the average dog owner. DO NOT try to help your dog -- go get some help, run away, get some water. DON'T get in there and need more stitches than your dog.)

In my opinion, in a fight scenario, it is the dogs who are the closest match size, strength, and energy wise who are the most likely to have to kill one to make him/her submit. This also requires a certain level of lack of options (like in a pit where dogs cannot escape each other) as well as a tremendous level of frustration and energy.

Here's the moral of the story dealing with loose dogs--KEEP WALKING. Focus on keeping your dog from making eye contact with the loose dog by walking away. (Make the loose dog look at your dog's butt.) Don't look at the loose dog. Don't talk to your dog. Just WALK AWAY. Even if the other dog jumps on your dog, don't look at either dog until the other dog gives up and goes away. Soon your dog will learn to ignore the show that loose dogs put on, and this prevents step one from occurring.

The hardest part is believing that it will all be fine. But it WILL all be fine. ;-)

Today's blog really has me wondering... if any of the humans in the pack are ill or injured, I wonder if
the dogs sense that and take advantage of it? For
example, after my dogs pulled me down on the ground first
time, I was injured, and also afraid to take them for
walks. At the same time, my boyfriend had been experiencing some health problems. With both of us in
a weakened state, is it possible that, like Cesar describes here, the dogs were trying to "move up a notch" and we inadvertently allowed that to happen, thus making
our situation so that they were "walking all over" us
(especially me) and me becoming injured repeatedly.
I guess I'm making it sound like accusatory ha ha but that's not what I meant. This blog just got me thinking.
Things started escalating and moving towards pre-red-zone
behavior over the same period of time as we humans were both going through our health problems. Similarly, because I was worrying about my boyfriend's health, I may have been projecting weakness, insecurity, nervousness which
they may have also taken advantage of and "moved up a notch". Previous to that time, I could control them most of the time, and they ALWAYS obeyed my boyfriend no matter what. However, they were also puppies (under 3 years old)
and are now adults. Perhaps there's something to this, I don't know, but it seems logical. On the other hand, I do
tend to be over-analytical!

K2, I was also wondering about being sick or hurt and the dogs taking advantage of the situation, but then I have read stories or seen programs on the TV about how dogs have stayed by a hurt child that got lost in the woods and would not leave their side and also about how dogs have stayed on the bed of their owners who were dying of cancer and would not leave. I wonder if it is just that particular dog or if most dogs would rise to the occasion. Right now my 5 month old pup would gladly take over the role of pack leader if I got in a weakened state!!

K2, Missy, what Cesar has said rather, is along the lines of the dog being impelled by his nature to become the pack leader... because SOMEBODY has to (lol), so it seem sto me rahter then think of it like a human type of manipulation or taking advantage, rather it is more of a instinct and survival trait. AND I have been in the same situation, NOW I can see them moving in to comfort me, take charge of me when I am in weakened moments like now dealing with my Foxie in her late stage of cancer.

John, it seems to me that by making the more agreesive dog submit to the submissive dog that it is rewarding the calm submissive behavior? This light bulb moment just occured to me while reading your post because Cesar has talked about doing this during his feeding ritual - rewarding the most submissive dog by feeding him first, then the next...

Ewa, Knuckle's situation has influenced me to do research on my own City/County State ordinances. I went to the codes, ordinances and state statutes and did a search for "dog" and was shocked (and enlightened) by what I found. I am going to add that information to my website as well as help to spread the word about the consequences of breed specific legislations (BSL).

I am very grateful to Cesar for bringing these issues up and learning about Knuckles' story, for making it so real and personal, to me- what a tragic situation this could be right here in my town. My Signal Bear or even Thunder might be in this same situation in Knuckles place.

Hi Doggone- I'm with you I agree to a point, I had a problem with my two german shepherds-We had my first shepherd Chris that passed away n 2003 for over 10 years, when she was 8 we got my now older shepherd "Ginger"-Chris had a great disposition, and was well socialized. She accepted Ginger as her own pup and the two of them were inseparable. Chris died of cancer, and Ginger was never the same, to the point where she would give off heart wrenching moans and howls, like she was calling her in the middle of the night. Ginger also stopped eating.
We were in the process of moving to a house in the country from an apartment and decided we would get another dog after the move, but we found a breeder who had my Chris' line, and she had a puppy ready for a home at that time. We decided to go for it and we got "CJ" (Chris Junior). Although we are trainers, we didnt know alot about dog psycology-we figured Ginger would love another dog especially one realted to Chris.
WRONG. They had a rocky start, but then seemed to get along fine. Ginger was always being a follower and happy that way-but using human psycology I tried to elevate her pack status which ended up confusing her, making her anxious, and angry. CJ was clearly the more dominant one but when her puppy license expried and she hit adulthood-Ginger started attacking her. My husband and I were not very effective pack leaders and we could not stop this behavior. We put Ginger on prozac and separated the two dogs when we weren't home, Cesar's show has helped immensely as well as his book, plus other books I have been reading about behavior.
Why I say I agree with this to a point- we WANT CJ to be #2 and Ginger to be #3.
CJ needs her confidence level back, and we want her to be dominant over Ginger.
I think if there aren't existing problems within a multiple dog household the concept of you being #1 and the rest of the pack being #2 is fine, but sometimes there are exceptions to every rule.

Doggone,
Thanks! You put into words precisely what I was unable
to say clearly! They definitely seemed to be just doing what came naturally because SOMEONE had to be in charge, and neither of us were capable of doing it at that particular moment.

Kelly,
I have three dogs, two of them fight. My solution was to separate them, and it has now been a year since we did that. The dogs have adjusted to being separated, and so did we. It is the only way I can have some peace, and not worrying all the time. I have asked 4 different trainers for help in the past, no one was able to help me. Now, just a few days ago someone told me that they can change my situation. They know what to do. At first I was glad to hear that, but after giving it some thinking, I think I will not do anything. Even if they can agree at home I will never be able to relax. I will always worry about them starting a fight, out of nowhere. My kids stay home alone quite a lot, and I never want them to experience another fight. They had to go through a lot when the dogs used to fight, to the point that my youngest daughter (8 years old) was saying that she didn't care if she lives or dies. It took school psychologist to find out why she was saying that, and it was all because of the dogs fighting. Now when they are separated, everyone is happy. We know everyone is safe. The kids are not worried anymore, and the dogs are fine. Yes, it's heck more work than if the dogs were together, but it's worthy.
If you can, try a trainer, and I hope everything will work great for you. But if not, separating the dogs is a good option.

Kelly,
That sounds like such an awful situation! I would definitely look at bring in a behaviorist to try to help with your 1.5 year old. He should not be allowed to behave that way and maybe they can give you some ideas on what to do! Good luck and let us know how things go!

Hi everyone,

This is in reference to what is going on in my sister's home.

Up until a few month's ago my sister had an Akita mix breed male. My nephew brought home a Pit/Boxer mix. My niece brought home a Corgi. Fortunatley they all got along after a period of adjustment. Well, a few months ago the Akita mix (named "Kita") who was 11 years old past away. That left the Pit/Boxer mix and the Corgi. Now my nephew has brought home a pure bred Pit puppy. When he said the puppy was only 5 weeks old it made me think, this dog is to young to have been taken from it's mother.

Well, the mother almost killed the puppy. She bit right into its muzzle. The bite was so bad that the puppy's tougne was severed halfway across and it's jaw was fractured. IT WAS AWFUL. Luckily he seems to be doing real well and is quite fiesty.

Just recently the Pit/Boxer has become quite agressive with the little one. I was there last night and the puppy happened to be near the stove along with the Pit/Boxer and something fell to the floor. Both dogs went after it - well needless to say the puppy lost and was attacked. His little head fits nicely into the Pit/Boxers mouth. The growling sound and the sounds coming from the puppy made all of us jump. Thankfully he was only shacken up, but I'm sure it could have been much worse if not caught so quickly.

The Pit/Boxer was sent to her house (cage)and the puppy consoled. She didn't stop wimpering and shaking for about 20 minutes. Luckily my nephew was not present when this happened. I am so afraid that something really bad is going to happen. That in turn will send my nephew into a tail spin since both pits are his. He flies off the handle very quickly and doesn't think before he reacts. No one will listen to me, especially him, when it comes to offering advise about what I have gathered from watching Cesar and viewing his DVD (haven't purchased his book yet).

I feel at a loss with this and I just pray that all the tension that is in my sisters home can be resolved soon.

Thanks for listening.

"I do treat them as equals to one another now."
"I meant that I don’t believe in having every dog in the house as #2"

Do you see the disconnect in these 2 sentences? If YOU treat them EQUALLY, you ARE treating them both as #2.

If what you are doing is working, great...that's the important part.

Doggone- You are misunderstanding me here-What I am doing is working, but I don't discourage CJ when she goes to be more dominant over Ginger, right now I prefer that situation. She is more confident, she doesn't look to us for protection and she doesn't prompt any more attacks by putting out her normal fear vibes, and Ginger seems happier and more content than ever since Chris died,and at the same time they are both looking at my husband and myself as the pack leaders. I notice a hierarchy between the two dogs when I walk them-CJ is right next to me, and Ginger walks directly behind her which shows me that CJ is becoming more dominant, if they felt they were both #2 they would walk side by side next to me.

This subject is the major reason I LOVE Cesar Millan! When I was a kid, we had dogs that fought occasionally. Looking at dog training books, popular advice at that time was to "let the dogs work it out," and "find out which dog is dominant and support that dog" by feeding it first, and allowing bullying, etc. The thinking was that the "lower or weaker" dogs would eventually give up and fighting would stop. Well, even as a kid I hated this idea and thought it was stupid. Instead I became an expert on triggers and funny looks the dogs would give each other and learned to prevent most fights. Now, as an adult, I currently have 6 dogs, and have never seen ANY of them fight, ever, not even with the dozens of "unbalanced" rescue dogs that have come and gone over the years. This is mostly because I took the approach with all my dogs that "no aggression is allowed in the pack... ever." How fantastic it was to hear Cesar say that about his own pack and see that it's possible with FIFTY or more dogs, even ones that used to fight to kill!!

As far as the dogs making their own pecking order, I think that only happens with the ones who are looking to "move up," and if you aren't around to supervise, there may be some bullying that could lead to a fight. I have even gone so far as to use cameras to find out what's happening when I'm gone to make sure no one is stepping out of line, lol. I agree with Doggone that large packs should be separated when no one is home if there is the slightest chance of a fight or a big age or size difference. John R., regardless of what Cesar says about making the dog that started the scuffle "submit to" the other dog, he's really making the dog submit to him. The dog knows it's only on the ground because of the person standing over it, believe me! If you watch the other dog that's not being corrected, it's not showing any of the behavior that would indicate that it's taking advantage of the situation and showing any dominance over the dog that is on the ground. What I have learned is that this exercise reminds the dogs that the human is in charge, period, and will protect them from any aggressors, which really frees them up to be the carefree kind of pet most people want. Thank you Cesar, for sharing all your knowledge... now if you could only bottle and sell that "energy..."

Michael,

Running with dogs! I do it every morning, and it's the best part of my day. My dogs are great runners, and can run way longer than I or my husband can. I love your site with great tips, and the picture.
I am lucky to run in a huge horse park, mostly on the trails, by the lake. If the dogs get hot, they jump in the lake. I used to let them roam around me while I was running, but just a week or so ago I decided to ask them to follow me (they are off leash). To my surprise it took just a few minutes for them to adjust to that, after the whole life of being able to run wherever they wanted.
I love to see them tired when we are returning home, I can go to work and know that they will be sleeping.

Shouter,

I loved Cesar saying (and you too) that no agression is allowed in the pack. But how do you do that? I live in peace now only because my dogs are separated (I apologize to everyone who heard my story 100+ times, and gets really annoyed reading about it again). The agression is not allowed here, but it still happens.
Doggone,
I am sorry about your dog. That is a horrible thing to witness.

Additonally, if they are all number 2, what do you do in a situation where all things are equal. Who gets to eat first (assuming they are all calm-submissive)? Who goes through doors first, etc? It seems that at a subconcious level you would not treat them equally at all times...

Nicole,
thank you so much for your insight. one of my dogs-boxer mix-shirley-makes alot of noise when she sees a dog, I don't know how a loose dog would react. today was good, we walked along side of a small dog, that went great, but the dogs behind gates, she lunged after, although not as much as before-we work on it every day.after i took my rottie-boots out on the bike, we saw 2 lg loose dogs & went the other way, he doesn't make noise or pay alot of attention to other dogs, but doesn't like it when they come near, but i was calm & just went the other way-befor Cesar-my knees would get weak & i would panic, so i'm getting healed of this. thank you all for all the insights.

Well, I just want to say Im still lovin the show :P Yes, I do watch the show Dog Whisperer on NG whenever I see it on :D Uh... Anyway...

I just want to ask, should I walk my dog every day? He does seem to like going on walks, he gets excided at the very mention. I know, i know, I shouldnt let him get 'excited' and bla bla, i seen the episode... but still. But once we are ON the walk, he gets tired very quicky. At first he is tugging ahead of me, but 1/2 way around the block, he is lagging behind. He has some issues with his leg that he cant really run alot because it hurts him, so I dont want to push him. Do you think I should still take him out? Maybe walk him for shorter time or... somthing? Any advice would be brilliant. THANX!

Sam (13 years old)

Tiffany,

Sounds like a sibling rivalry going on. Marco thinks that he is in charge to be the one correcting "follower". It must be hard taking your dogs on seperate walks. I recomend to go on a walk with both Marco and Beaver, then every time that Marco tries to nip, growl, or even give eye contact to Bear, correct him with a firm yank and the leash and a "shooosh". Do this every time he tries to be dominent over Bear. Be in control and firm. Don't let either dog get away with ANYTHING. If they do start to act up at each other, take control right away. Stop them both and sit them down. If they try to give eye contact or raise the hair on their back, immediatly correct them. Once they are submissive to you and ignoring each other, start your walk again. You are dealing with a powerful bread, so don't give them an inch, and always have an asserive and calm energy. If you are afraid of a fight, don't be. Don't think about it, just do it as routine. I hope that everything goes well. And also, if you don't feel quite comfortable to take them together, then get professional help. Good luck! :D

~Chantel

read about the dog name mercy Danessa

Hi Ewa,

I've seen some of your posts and have a general idea what you went through and why you separated your dogs. I applaud you for finding a solution other than getting rid of one or both of them. I think getting them to walk together is great progress, and if you are never able or want to progress further, then so what! It's your life and your dogs, and if no one is getting hurt (kind of the point of separating them, lol) then don't feel bad about it. Having said that, Cesar shows what is possible, and it's incredible, isn't it? But it's work, and when you are dealing with aggression it can be dangerous work. And without a trainer or coach to help you in person, I would really hesitate to tell you to go for it and try all the things you see on the show. Weren't you the one who said a trainer at PetsMart said you couldn't fix this problem without ever even seeing the dogs? So I can completely understand why you don't have a trainer to help you! I will say that a lot of what I've done with my dogs is contrary to what you read in dog training books when it comes to pack order and fighting, and is much more like what Cesar does, which is one reason I like him so much! I think what Cesar and I define as "aggression" can be much more mild than what the average dog owner would consider aggressive. For me, it's all about prevention, though Cesar seems less concerned about little scuffles, because he knows he can end it in a matter of seconds, and as he's said, you can't correct the behavior if you don't see it. I never let the behavior even get to a snarl or growl but step in at the first sign of tension between the dogs, which sometimes is just a sideways look one is giving the other. You have to be really good at reading their body language -- for example, did you see the 1st season episode with Emily, the red-zone pit bull? There is a moment when the owners are at Cesar's place and are walking her through the pack, and roughly one second before she attacks a dog, Cesar moves to grab her leash. Did you see why? Emily was extremely tense and he knew he had to do something. I never work with two "unbalanced" dogs at the same time. (I know Cesar does, but I'm just not that good!) That way, I usually only have to address one dog for aggression at a time. In my own pack, I am a micro-manager, (lol) and don't allow toy or food stealing, rough play if one dog doesn't look like they are enjoying themselves, or any type of object or place guarding behavior. (There's this one dog bed they all covet, but it was too expensive for me to just get rid of, so they had to learn to share!) I also don't leave any dogs together without proper supervision (some family, bless them, need not apply here!) if I can't be 100% sure there will be no fights. Of the current pack only one is crated when they are home alone because he chases the cats when not supervised. (Of course I have cats, too!!) My rule for corrections is to use the mildest one that works, and for my current pack that is usually just a verbal one or an assertive look. Timing is crucial! To get to that point I used collar and leash tugs or pops, and, although I didn't know it at the time, calm assertive energy! I also used a lot of the information in the book Mother Knows Best (Benjamin) in learning how to be a good pack leader. I don't know of anyone else who uses it, but the long down stay (we are talking a minimum of 30 minutes!) was an invaluable tool for me in the early days of building my confidence, and I still use it today -- though less because I just don't need it as much. All I can say is that I did what worked for me, and even though I still get razzed by some of my friends who believe in the "pecking order" theory, I'll stick with the approach that has resulted in zero fights in 15 years, with probably close to 50 different rescue dogs that have come and gone in addition to my own. Just be aware that some of the techniques on the show (like pinning a dog to the ground) can INCREASE aggression if the handler doesn't know what the dog is "saying," or how to change it, which is why there's always that disclaimer saying consult a professional! Good luck with whatever your decision, I know you care about your dogs and will make the right one for them.

I know this is kinda off topic, but for the past few days now, my youngest boxer, Lucy, has been acting out a bit on our walks. She will sort of throw a temper trantrum and just sit down. What she does exactly, is put one foot on the leash and put it to the ground so that I either stop or she hobbles on three legs behind me. It's a fear thing I think b/c her tail is tucked under as soon as there is the slightest distraction during the walk. I tried putting her between myself and my older boxer, Oscar, and she did fairly well, but then I don't have as much control and she ends up all over the place. Any suggestions on how to stop her from pretty much just freezing up on our walks and throwing a fit?

Also, I've noticed in the past few weeks that she has become fearful of practically everything. My male boxer is VERY aggressive with her whenever someone is near our yard, or in our house, but I control him every time and there hasn't been an attack in months. But the intimidation is still there I'm afraid. Also, she will pull on the walks and no matter how calm-assertive I am, and even with the leash up near her ears, she still pulls until my arm just aches. Please help!:)

Kate

Hi Penny,
I work with service dogs for the handicapped. During training all the dogs wear a shab, or vest that says "in training" on it. We correct the people who try to pet the dogs and it gets very tiresome. The dogs that have graduated and are working go through the same thing! People don't understand and it is up to you to educated them. You are now an ambassador for service dogs and their owners. Please tell these people not to pet the dog because he is working or in training.
One of my patients actually has a sign on her wheelchair saying "Don't pet me, I'm working." Other patients have a patch on the dog's shab that says the same thing. One of my patients used to be a preschool teacher and she enjoys educating the kids about her dog. When they try to pet him she corrects the kids and lets them know they must ask first! Then she shows them some of the things he does for her.
When you have a service dog it is just something you have to get used to.
Please be kind to the uneducated and take time to enlighten them about your service dog.
Good Luck to you. Once your dog is trained and graduated you will have a wonderful friend and helper!

I have a 16 month old flat-coated retreiver, Buddy. I got him when he was 9 mos. old from a local rescue. We walk at least 3 miles each day with a pack and I use Cesar's techniques.

Inspite of all of the calm-assertive leadership he has one habit or game that I can't seem to stop. He loves to steal things you are working with in order to be chased. He steals garden gloves, clothes off the line, any small thing he believes you might need. I know it is for attention, and it happens before and after walks. He no longer can be tricked into giving up the object by showing a more interesting one. i keep a long lead on him when I'm going to be out in the yard so if I'm close at hand I can step on it and stop him. He knows "leave it" and "no", but they don't always work. I now stand still and look away from him. He gets frustrated and after a bit something else will grab his attention and I get my thing back. Does anyone have another way of dealing with this?

Chantel and Sara,
Thanks for the advice. I just want to say that he HAS been to the vet. A while ago. He had some sort of hip thing... I just couldnt really remember what... sorry for the confusion. He has had it for a long time, and had surgery on it awhile back. I think he might have authritus or somthing is why it hurts or whatever still... and he doesnt really ACT like it hurts, more... makes it uncomfortable. But he does seem to tire pretty fast... thats why I was wondering if I should like take him for shorter walks. OK well anyway... I do walk him whenever I can (just that I aint home every day) and maybe shorten the walks a little.

Sam

Hello all,

Enjoy reading your posts. I adopted a puppy mill rescue 3 weeks ago. Teddy is a 4 year old, toothless, Papillon.
He is such a sweet boy. My question is how do you teach a dog to "play". I have a 10 year old min. poodle, Coco who loves to play fetch with his stuff toys. Teddy doesn't appear to be interested in any activity - I've tried balls, stuffed toys, bones....to no avail. I am teaching him to Dance in a circle, with treats - he does like doing that. I also walk the dogs every day. He only makes it around the block and poops out. Was kept in a cage his whole life - so I've had to leash train him. Any suggestions, or am I trying too hard, too soon?

Doggone/GA
Thanks for your advice. I do most of what you say and work everyday at improving my leadership. He will leave things if I am near and I do catch him when first looking at something. I got Buddy when he was 9 mos. old. He came with the game of taking stuff so he can be chased. When I have raised dogs from a puppy I don't encourage that behavior and haven't had this problem in an adult sized dog.

I can't work in the garden and pay 100% attention to what he is looking at. If he takes something I CAN'T go claim it. It just begins a chase. I am asking for the best response that will extinguish this behavior.

Buddy is quite good at a down stay. But I see no point in keeping him in a down stay while I am gardening. He is a dog, and a companion. One that needs to learn that everything isn't a toy, and I start the games, not him. We are working on that

Chelsea F,

25 more days and dvd will be out for sale. really can't wait.
i'm just surprised why NG is selling it for $69 while amazon's price is way down to $48. hmmmm

susanm,
oh those awesome retrievers and labradors, one really awesome book, "marley and me". see you at the message boards...

NATIONAL DOG BITE PREVENTION WEEK

May 21-27, 2006 is National Dog Bite Prevention Week. Join us in helping to reduce the 4.7 million dog bites that take place each year in the United States. Of the 800,000 of those that are bitten and seek medical attention, half are children.

Contact your local news, both TV and print and remind them that Bite Prevention Week is coming up, ask them to do a story or segment on dog safety, and with TV, request that it not be only on the noon lunch show, which many miss because they are at work, but on every airing the first day to kick off the week the right way.

Also contact your child's school and let them know about the week, it is a simple thing for them to print up a notice for the children to take home on dog safety...

Every little bit helps, and if even one child is saved from a bite then it is all worth it!

Penny,
Yes, most service dogs are larger because most of them are trained to pull a wheel chair if necessary. All service dogs are people magnets and I know it is frustrating. I have seen several service dogs that are small. For people like you the dog needs to be a small breed.
One of my wheelchair patients is a quad. She drives a power chair and has very little upper body control. Because of this her lab wears a pinch collar. People think it's mean and always question her about it. The truth is that it only takes a slight touch for the dog to recieve a signal from her because of the pinch collar.
There is an organization in Arizona that will send you the course for training Loki yourself and will also send a tester out when it is time for him to graduate. The cost is relatively cheap. I don't know what state you are in or if you live close enough for their consideration.
Try putting a sign on your wheelchair and getting a T-shirt for yourself that says "Don't pet the dog he's working". This should help.
Yes people can be rude! We have been asked to leave resturaunts and stores and have had one doctor refuse to treat a patient because he was afraid of the service dog! (The dog is so docile and sweet, never barks!) It's just something you will have to get used to handling. We always carry the dog's certificate and educated people about the law concerning service dogs. Done properly and sweetly we manage to make uneducated people see the error of their ways. (Some of them feel stupid and embarressed after our little talks, but that's their problem!)
In the mean time it sounds like Loki is doing a great job and is excelling in the area of creating that social bridge all handicapped people need.
I am so glad you have Loki and have made him a part of your life.

Good Morning All!!!!
Yesterday was our 2nd walk with our new walking buddy and Roman did great! The mastiff did very well also, and it helped me to see what happens with energy and a dog....Poor Brit (dog's owners name) had everything that could go wrong, go wrong before she walked out with the dog and he was just being completely unreasonable. It helped ME to see what our energy does and it also helped her also....it is so awesome to have someone to share the experience of working with my dog and stuff! Just wanted to share!!! :)

poodle_lover,

Wow. Tats brilliant! Great job! I would have never been able to do such quick thinking.

Im going to post this again since nobody responded:

Chantel and Sara,
Thanks for the advice. I just want to say that he HAS been to the vet. A while ago. He had some sort of hip thing… I just couldnt really remember what… sorry for the confusion. He has had it for a long time, and had surgery on it awhile back. I think he might have authritus or somthing is why it hurts or whatever still… and he doesnt really ACT like it hurts, more… makes it uncomfortable. But he does seem to tire pretty fast… thats why I was wondering if I should like take him for shorter walks. OK well anyway… I do walk him whenever I can (just that I aint home every day) and maybe shorten the walks a little.

Oh… and this blog makes me think once again of my grandma’s dogs, Boris and Natasha. If you read my one entry acouple days ago you will know about them… anyway, in a nutshell: Natasha is WAY more dominant over her brother Boris. We cant seem to stop the problem though. Although my g-ma (and me) are ‘dominant’ over Natasha, we cant seem to get the whole ‘equal’ thing goin on. Any advise???

Sam

TEACHING A DOG TO PLAY

In my opinion, play is the only time we can foster "up" excited energy. If you are going to teach a reluctant dog to play, during your first sessions, it can help to take advantage of times when the dog is naturally in this aroused state, like when first out of his crate, when you first come home, or before meals. (Once you have gotten some play started, don't do this anymore.)

Be sure to choose an appealing toy--floppy, long, and smelly! Leave it in your laundry, let another dog play with it, or store it in the dog food for a bit.

You can either use a food reward for putting the mouth on the toy, etc, or you can simply just have fun and keep practicing. Either way will work as long as you quit BEFORE the dog totally loses interest. You will probably have to work until the dog loses interest the first few times in order to realize where that line is.

Because play can be a VERY powerful thing, I would suggest you work with a professional experienced in using play to enhance your leadership role.

Good luck!

Dave -

my poodle is a toy/miniature, and he wears a harness when we walk, because I don't want to risk damaging his windpipe by tugging. In Cesar's book, he recommends that you tug to the side, instead of up or back, to get his attention. You can also use the side of your leg to get the same result (Cesar showed this on a recent episode).

Good luck.

CJ I agree! Cesar was really clear and concise with his comments on this episode -- I mean he always is, but there was definitely something more "serious" not just with the women inmates, but also with the football guy and his wife during the first half. It was more like the producers didn't just jazz-up the segments like they usually do. This time there were only the two segments, and they were both really in-depth. Wicked good show! I especially liked the demo of "the Cesar bite" (as I call it) -- he has demonstrated this many, many times, but never so thoroughly. Ah, the guy always amazes me!! I can't wait to see next week's show!!

As always I enjoy watching Cesar in action and am constantly amazed at his abilities. I have a question about the "bite" he applies to the neck. Would someone on here who has had experience using it explain exactly where to put your thumb and also about how much pressure to apply. Also do you use this during the walk if the leash correction doesn't work? I don't want to hurt my dog's neck and now am just using a regular buckle collar and leash. I really would like to order the Ilusion collar when it comes out.

"As always I enjoy watching Cesar in action and am constantly amazed at his abilities. I have a question about the “bite” he applies to the neck. Would someone on here who has had experience using it explain exactly where to put your thumb and also about how much pressure to apply."

It's not just the thumb...it's ALL the fingers. You "cup" your hand and sort of "stab" the fingers into the dog. It can be light or very strong, depending on why it is being used. And it doesn't have to be the neck, it can be used on whatever part of the dog is easiest to reach. I've actually had better results with it on the ribs than the neck. Whippets have very good eyesight and can be startled beyond expectation by a sudden movement near their head-so ribs seems to work better for them . But it will vary depending on the dog and the reason for using it.

" Also do you use this during the walk if the leash correction doesn’t work? I don’t want to hurt my dog’s neck and now am just using a regular buckle collar and leash. I really would like to order the Ilusion collar when it comes out. "

Yes, it is sort of the next level of correction. But the Illusion "collar" isn't really any sort of collar at all...it's more like a neck harness and it is used IN CONJUCTION with, usually, a training collar-it is meant to keep the REAL collar up near the dog's ears with much less effort on the owner's part.

I would suggest you rethink using only a buckle collar. You can't really give a good, proper correction with a buckle collar. The action is different and the placement of the correction is different. Plus, and this can be important, it is far too easy for a dog to pull it's head out of a buckle collar and that can be disasterous either if the dog is fearful OR aggressive. With a proper training (aka: choke) collar no matter how hard the dog pulls he can't get out of it, unless it breaks or the owner simply lets go of the lead.

I am so happy about last night's show.

The Pups on Parole is a wonderful program. It is so great to see unbalanced dogs get a second chance. The thing that truly touched me was that the woman at this prison didn't seem like criminals. They were woman who had made wrong desisions but had a chance to try and mend things through the dogs. You could tell thier self esteem was high because they were saving a life. They felt like they were worth something more when they were helping those dogs become balanced, and also themselves. This here is a win-win situation. The woman are learning and giving back, and the dogs are given a second chance. The dogs are helping them to stop thinking about what they did wrong, but how they can help the dogs for the future. I wish that every prison could have this oppertunity to save a life and have something that will help them in prison instead of harden them.

~Chantel

"I liked how they put the “elapsed time” on some of the dogs to show how quickly he was able to change the dogs. I mean, 10 MINUTES…WOW!"

I know Jim Milio, one of Cesar's producers for the show and he told me that there is very little editing to do (I work for a post production company). He says he is constantly amazed how quickly Cesar gets the dogs in control. They would edit the show differently if the outcome was not as quick. The 2 day seminar at the prison was a totally different arena for him because dogs are not usually allowed at this seminars - just the humans. This was a total hands-on affair and every minute counted.

What did concern me was how many times Cesar got bit on that show. Some of his methods should definitely come under the heading "Don't try this at home". He did an amazing job for the dogs and for the women.

I am wondering if I'm doing the right thing with my Belgian Shep after seeing this show. She is always shy at first with new dogs, even a chihuahua, if it lunges at her. I was told by everyone never to force her to go close to something she is afraid of. But Cesar really insists that the shy dogs let other dogs approach them. Hmmm...any thoughts?

I would give my left arm and probably some toes for Cesar to do a stom/noisephobic show.

For all of those mommies and daddies in storm season purgatory right now, you know what I mean!!!!

P.S. Iceni has figured out the magic peanutbutter (acepromazine) comes just befor the storm so she goes BALLISTIC on principle.

Congratulations K2, choke collars are definely the answer,and Im glad you enjoyed your walk on the beach.I had similiar success this weekend as well. Isn't it a great feeeling when you are in charge.WE were able to walk our 2 dogs(a lab named Jake and a shih tso named Ebony) side by side. Our problem was Jake thought Ebony was a toy and Ebony seemed to instigate Jake.Both were not willing to become submissive.After watching the show on Desert Bulldogs, I tried the same technique, three times yesterday for approximately one hour each time and by this morning both Jake and Ebony gave up being boss and I took over.It's a lot of work, but well worth it.We had a great walk, and both dogs seem more relaxed. I'll give an update in a few days.

"A question. Does it matter if the choke chain is made of real chains or nylon? Which one is better?"

It probably doesn't matter that much, except the chain, being heavier for the length, will drop to a loose position much more quickly. But to offset that, some dogs get VERY good at reacting to the sound a chain makes and avoiding the correction by moving closer to you. So it's a trade off. For a "sharper" correction, a stiff nylon collar is better than a soft one...but a soft one stays up near the head better. Again, a trade off!

I am the Desert Bulldogs Mom - I just wanted to tell everyone how well the dogs are continuing to do - it is all about Cesar's basics - rules, boundries, limitations and LOTS of walks. Yes it was, and is, work - but worth it! We were and the production staff have our most heartfelt thanks - beyond what you saw on the show, he took the time to help me with Peaches, the cocker spaniel -and she is reformed from her former "charge the front door" self.

As my husband and I watched the show, we tried to remember the last real fight they've had. We had a few minor skirmishes after Dolly had minor surgery, and a few when my husband was ill(it is absolutely true that dogs can and will sense weakness)but the fighting you saw is pretty much a thing of the past - they are not perfect, but we now have the confidence and the skills that Cesar taught us to deal with them. It's not a one-time fix with "red-zone" dogs - it is a lifelong commitment we have been happy to make.

Susan

"I liked how they put the “elapsed time” on some of the dogs to show how quickly he was able to change the dogs. I mean, 10 MINUTES…WOW!"

You do know it's only for that moment that the dog changes. It's not like the dog is "healed or fixed" of the problem for the rest of it's life.

But seeing how the dogs are able to change in that short time shows you how "dogs live in the moment" and are willing to change if the owners give them what they need to become a balanced,healthy dog.

Penny,
Good for you! You go girl!

Penny, What a great story!!

I apologize if there is a similar post here because I did not read all the post on this topic.
I love Cesar's way. He is truly a dog whisperer. This said, there was one thing that I did not feel comfortable with during this last episode. The first time ever I felt this way about what Cesar said. It is when he recommended to hold small dogs in the neck. I tried it with my Min Pin and she did not like it.I felt very uncomfortable. Maybe she is too heavy to be held this way. (She weighs 8 pounds. The Chi in the show looked much smaller.) Maybe it is a matter of my dog getting used to be held this way?
I think I will continue to hold her as I have always done, holding her chest in my hand. I agree with Cesar that those dog carriers that hold a dog like a baby in front of people is Coo Coo, though.
Most people who post here seem to own larger dogs, but if you own smaller dogs, what do you think about what Cesar said?

Yoko,

Please scroll back up to post #71 and read what "Poodle lover" had to say on this subject.

I don't believe Cesar was saying we're to pick our small dogs up like this for every occasion.

Everything Cesar does is born out of the dog world and from the dog's percpetive and not ours. This is why Cesar's motto is, "I rehabilitate dogs and train people", we need the training because we've been taught to view and treat dogs from a human perceptive. You'll find that "Poodle lover" is a huge proponent of this method.

I own toy breeds and believe me, if I find myself in the same position that "Poodle Lover" was in..my chihuahua will be picked up by the scruff of his neck.

Yoko,
I think Cesar only meant for people to pick up small dogs by the scruff of the neck if/when there is a problem or a reason to pick them up quickly -- like a mother dog would do. But if you're just picking her up to carry her from one place to another, and there are no distractions, then you don't have to carry her by the neck. Sarah explained it better than I just did!! LOL!

k2,

It's wonderful that you are trying to help this dog. From your posts I think that you could handle three dogs. You really know what you're doing with the two you have now.
I have three dogs. Before two of them started fighting, it was perfect. It isn't really much difference if you have two or three. The way I walk mine (and I could never walk the three of them at the same time without the leashes being tangled in 2 seconds) is first I take one dog, the most anxious one. Two of them stay home, so it's not like you leave one behind. Once I am back with the one, I give her small treat, or sometimes nothing at all. She knows it's her sisters' turn now, so she goes on the couch.
I never planned to have three dogs. By different means they found me. I can't imagine my life without them.
To me it seems like this dog has found you. From what you write it should be good. If it was a male, maybe not, but since it's a female, spayed.
I know that each time I would have to go grocery shopping and see this dog, it would break my heart. And don't worry about the pit bull in her. All but one of the pit bulls that I know (including mine pit bull mix) are the sweetest, friendliest dogs on earth. They have wonderful personalities, it's humans who make them dangerous.
Good luck with whatever decision you make!

I also have always used the choke, or the prong collar. the trick is the snap it very quickly, usually till your dog "yelps" a bit. then they will pay attention toyou & next time u won't have to do it as hard, also quickly turn around when they go ahead, that works well too.I run my dogs along side my bike, my youngest dog-Shirley(boxer mix)
usuallly runs out in front of my bike/pulls & is scary to do this with..but my husband(a naturally born leader) has been doing this with her.she does not pull him, she trots beside him. so today, i tugged on her leash to let her know i'm holding it, then i didn't go fast, just slow & she did great! also this is the dog who went crazy seeing other dogs, today there were 2 dogs out, she hardley paid them any attention. Thank you Cesar!I'm learning to be a leader. It was Great! soon as i'm 100% leader of my 2 dogs, we're getting another one. the only reason we only have 2 now, is because it's time consuming to walk 1 dog at a time, but i can walk them both,or take them on the bike. now that the dog park is open again,i'm not depending on it during the hot summers here to just take them there, i'm walking them first.I love this site. I told several people at work about the show, so far 4 new people are watching it.

Not to criticize anyone, but I don't think it's necessary to snap the choke/pinch collar to the point of making your dog "yelp a little". I find it effective to give a quick snap of the chain/collar without causing any actual pain.

I don't recall Cesar ever snapping the collar to the point that the dog yelped except in cases of "red-zone" dogs and for the majority of the "red-zone" cases, he didn't even make these dogs yelp.

I know everyone has their own way of correcting their animals and I am by no means an expert, but I don't think it's necessary to advocate causing pain in order to refocus the dog.

Just my 2 cents though, not trying to offend anyone.

Kate G.

I see where you're coming from. I don't think you should ever be pulling the "choke" chain so hard that it makes them yelp. They get your point through the preasure, but you shouldn't be choking them, in my oppinion. Doggone, you are right by saying, "startle factor", but I don't think a dog would yelp if surprised. Maybe surprised with pain. A quick "snap and release" is all you need. NOT a punishing "pull until they yelp". You only need to correct, so that they know they did something wrong. Like the bite that Cesar uses, you don't have to use pain necesarily, just preasure. That's my oppinion.

~Chantel

Yo K2 you'd have to change yr name to K3! I once had 3 dogs. Same thing, I kept seeing her in the local lockup and my heart just went out and didn't come back. I think it's tough though to have three. It's pretty hard to walk 3 dogs with 2 hands, and you will be WAY out-weighed. Actually it is more complicated to do everything, keeping an eye on them in the yard, worrying about their different idiosycracies (one barks, one is quiet but tends to sneak under the fence, one doesn't like male intact dogs etc.) even just feeding them or giving them a treat - just 2 hands y'know. I'm not saying don't follow your heart, I'm just saying 3 IS a lot more than 2 IMOP.

K2,

I admire the wisdom you're using in approaching the decision to adopt this new dog. Sometimes people use their heart only. I don't agree with "trying out" a new dog, if they have to be returned then that's another strike against the poor thing.
I'd ask the people who run the shelter how often they walk the dogs, if they are exercised properly and regularly you'll stand a better chance of the dog being off to a good start on being a balanced dog.
Maybe you can volunteer to walk the dog while you're still in the decision making process, a walk will give you an idea of his behavior/temperment and give the dog a chance to get out of his cage and do what dogs do.."migrate".
Good luck!

Hi everyone, I've been reading and enjoying this blog for quite a while, and appreciate so much all of the information that is shared here. Like most of you, we have gained so much from Cesar, the show, his book and his DVD.

I decided that it's time to take the plunge and share with you because we recently became a 3 dog family (pack!) and one of them is a budding service dog.

Ana the golden retriever was originally to be the service dog, but in addition to her stubborn personality, it was determined that she is too small. Our son Paul is autistic, and needs an anchor when he walks and also some encouragement to stay put occasionally when my husband and I need to step away from him for a moment. Paul is 20 and nearly 6 feet tall, and we finally figured out that holding a leash to stay grounded is meaningless to him, we might as well just hand him a leash with no dog attached.

In the meantime, my dear hubby rescued a sheltie from animal control as a birthday gift for me last February. She was truly the best gift I ever received; she and I immediately shared a bond with each other that I'd never before experienced. She'd been betrayed by the people she loved, and still she trusted me immediately. She taught me what true forgiveness is.

Despite a clean bill of health from our vet the day she came home, she suddenly became terribly sick 2`weeks later and died as we were rushing her to the vet. She'd been abandoned and was found in a park and the vet could only guess that she'd picked up something awful either there or at the pound. It broke my heart.

Then came the awful 2 weeks of closely watching Ana, hoping and praying that she wouldn't get sick. Once that passed, my husband found a reputable breeder and 10 week old sheltie Jassie joined us.

The two of them bonded very quickly and it was fascinating to watch them work out their relationship. They laid each other down several times, biting the neck just as Cesar said.

THEN we received word that we'd been approved by a rescue for another dog -- a giant one that is tall enough for Paul to rest his hand on the dog's neck. We spent 5 hours looking at dozens of dogs and finally a Great Pyrenees not quite 2 years old came trotting over, gave Paul a big kiss, then laid down at his feet. He looked up at us clearly saying,"now that I've found my boy, let's go home!"

So home we went. Like any rescue Moe (that's how Paul says "more" which he certainly is)had issues. We are his third home; the first one wasn't prepared for his size and he was an awfully cute puppy. When he was 6 months old he leaned against the grandpa and sent him flying, so he was turned in to the rescue. In the second home lived a 5 year old who enjoyed putting dog biscuits in his mouth and then removing them just because he could. Eventually the dog growled at the child, so off he went back to the rescue.

As a result he's food and toy agressive and we're dealing with that Cesar-style. He's making great progress. He goes to church each Sunday, and I'm enjoying the bits of freedom that he provides and Paul is enjoying the independence! He learned "stay-watch" very quickly and, as he's as big as a pony and Paul is tethered to him with a waist leash they stay put! This past weekend we received special permission to bring him to a community theater production just to give him a new experience. He did great, just sat quietly and watched, except for when someone knocked on the door and he said "woof". The audience laughed...so he's not a perfect service dog yet, but he's learning. We're going to begin the process of certification as soon as he's settled in a bit more. We actually encourage petting him after he has met them in the correct way, because that encourages Paul to be social. Since one of us is always with them he isn't required to remain completely focused on Paul.

We've found that 3 is a very good number, despite the fact that they're so diverse in size -- my husband wants to rename them Tall, Grande and Venti! Ana the golden as I've said is very stubborn and is the only one that challenges us as pack leaders (she'll wait till the others are done eating then she starts, etc.) We call her the square wheel, but the other 2 are gradually rounding her corners beautifully. She's an odd one, we don't know if she's dominant, low self esteem, or just determined to make life difficult. One of her favorites is to stop suddenly on the stairs with the other dogs behind her and just sit there. One bite on the neck from Big Moe cured that!

So that's our story! We're glad we have Cesar and we're glad that this blog is here for all of us!

Dear Yoko,

I think you thought that Cesar wanted small dogs to be picked up by the scruff of their neck always. Wrong.
He picked that little guy up for the purpose of letting the larger excited Husky to smell him. He held the little one facing his chest. Cesar said,"do not allow eye contact between the dogs during this process". Holding the smaller dog in such a manner allowed him to relax while being smelled. Since the Husky was so excited he introduced a calmer dog to do the sniffing. Then he put him on the floor, but still held his neck as the calmer dog continued to sniff, which allowed the smaller dog to relax. Then he let the little guy go.

Thank you, i didn't take offence, i just didn't want anyone to think i hurt my "babies". I was thinking about getting a rawhide bone again, as before, it was the only thing they ever growled over, so i quit buying them, should i "claim" it whenever they growl(i would get them each their own).They realy enjoy thoes. gotta go to work,
thanks everyone.oh..it touches my heart to hear of the service dogs. they give me so much more than i can give them.

Ewa,
Dogs are the best, what a gift they are! Moe is very special in that most dogs either ignore Paul because he gives very little back, or they are too small for him to focus on. The sheltie spends a lot of time trying to get his attention around his ankles, but he can't connect.

Moe seems to sense his need and instinctively feels that it's his responsibility to care for and nurture Paul. It's a lot of work, but we try very hard to have Paul put his food bowl down, make a stab at brushing, and when we're out my pockets are full of liver bits for Paul to give to his dog now and then to express his appreciation for Moe's help.

I'm so glad that your son has Sparky! It's so vital that we find ways for these guys to communicate, and dogs are so non-judgemental and accepting. Paul is usually pretty mellow but can occasionally act out -- it was tough for Moe in the beginning to deal with that but again, we just confronted it as we feel Cesar would and Moe was able to see that nothing bad happened, just a lot of noise.

Sarah,
Thank you so much for your kind words. We've actually discussed submitting our story to Cesar, just to see what would happen. We're convinced that Ana is the dog that would make him throw up his hands in despair saying "I have no clue what her problem is!"

We just may do that -- however, Moe joining the pack just might be her salvation and ours. There's good old peer pressure and also it's a tremendous boost to our confidence that a dog the size of a minivan obeys us without question,and more and more that confidence is reflected in her behavior.

By the way, my new favorite breed is the Great Pyrenese -- totally gentle and compliant but a very serious watchdog as well. I would recommend a Pyr to anyone who can deal with the size!

Katie 3,
Thanks for sharing your incredible life! I am really sorry about the dog you lost. We had to put our 7 1/2 year old boxer down about 5 months ago and I shed more tears for her than I have for some people that have died. I have a 6 month old boxer now and she is a joy and a "pill" all in one!!
That is great news that you found a dog for your son! It really amazes me how dogs connect with us. Good luck with your "pack" and keep us informed.

Hey Katie3, you should just enjoy watching those 2 tussle. It is a wonderful relationship, and better viewing than the National Geographic channel, except for Cesar's show of course! You will know if they are really angry at each other and showing aggression. There is a radical shift in sound and intensity, from play growls and happy barks to true snarls and yelps.

I occasionally hear this shift when one dog hurts another by accident. There will suddenly be a savage sounding "CUT IT OUT!" kind of snarl and snap, and the other dog will yelp, then they stop playing for a few minutes and sniff each other a bit.

Another thing I have seen in quite a few pairs of dogs is that when they wrestle for joy they tend to take turns pinning each other. Sometimes one will deliberately lie on her back to entice the other to wrestle her from the underdog position. When dogs battle for dominance, one will mount and/or pin the other repeatedly, with no reciprocity at all.

Katie3,

I have an autistic grandson who is 3 1/2. My daughter adopted a German Shepherd from GSD rescue and Heidi and Johnny are inseparable. Hunter, my oldest, is 6 and prefers computers but Johnny and Heidi have such a special bond. Heidi seems to know that Johnny needs her and never leaves his side. She has been allowed to attend his special school and she loves all of the children. All of them are at different levels of autistism and they all love her. Johnny is now talking and he sings to Heidi (itsy, bitsy spider...)

I see what you meen about the yelping. As long as the yelping is from surprise that's ok with me. Thanks for clearing things up. :D

i had 5 female yorkshire terriers until yesterday. 2 out of the 5 were almost the same size. never on a leash.these two fought and i had to seperate them a few times or come home to realizing they were fighting.i locked up the one who was causing the fights. she came after the other one,whom i see is more insecure than the agressor.i never looked for triggers. i never thoght they would fight to death.i left my house i a hurry,forgot to put the dog away in her crate,came home 3 hours later to find the non agressor one dead.they knew not to fight when i was home or my husband.actually he broke them up a few times a few days b4 this happened.but the minute no one is in the house she attacked.why?? im loooking for answers.im watching cesar on tv and its making a lot of sense.how can someone have 40 dogs and they dont fight over a ball,i have 5 dogs,and one is dead at the hand of another yorkie.i mean these are not pitbulls.i dont know what to do other than lock em up.i wish i understood there behavior a little better 2 days ago.the pack word never crossed my mind.

Christy,

I'm so sorry that this has happened -- I'm sending you a hug and I wish it could be in person.

Cesar has had some pretty aggressive yorkies on the show; unfortunately, I think the best thing you could do is to find a dog behaviorist tomorrow and get some advice from a professional -- I think that once a dog has killed it's a whole different story. Maybe a place to start would be to find a yorkie rescue in your area; they have lots of experiece in dealing with the issues of that breed. I'm sure that they would be willing to help in any way possible.

For now, I would definitely keep her separate from the others, at least while you're trying to recover from this happening. Perhaps it would help all of you to take the other three on walks together.

I wish I could think of something more comforting other that to say that I'm hurting with you. I'll check this thread often if you want to talk more.

thank you katie3 so much for your comforting words. i am extremely distraught over this,especially as it sinks in.i feel to blame.it couldnt get any worse. i didnt take it seriously maybe,i never heard of yorkies killing other yorkies. i didnt think fighting was natural for dogs in the same household.a little growl or bark.but fighting to the death????? it blows my mind. its terrible now to live with guilt. its so upsetting. i do appreciate any kind comforting words you have to say. sorry ophilia, i dont know what to say.

Christy,
I'm so sorry about what happened, no you couldn't have known.Please don't blame yourself. I mourn with you,I've lost some beloved dogs too.

thank you everyone for your help. ill have to watch those episodes. it means alot to me that you are responding to my situation.thanks so much.

Hi Christy, You sound so heartbroken. I feel so sad for you! Have you asked your vet for the name of a dog behaviorist in your area? Also, on Cesar's web site (The Dog Psychology Center web site, not this one) there are the names of a few dog behaviorists that he recommends -- I think all or most of them were trained by Cesar. They're scattered about the country, so maybe one is near you. You definitely need the help of a professional. If it is of any comfort, remember that the dogs just did what came naturally to them, just as if they were an undomesticated pack in the wild. It's not your fault. It was just natural instincts. You can read about this in Cesar's book, just to help you understand that it's something that just happened, and you may not ever know the answers or what led up to it. The stronger dogs in a natural pack will go after the weakest dogs and sometimes they will fight to the death. Your husband is right --you should probably not try uniting them without professional guidance. Another thought might be to adopt out Sabrina to another family. She may do better just being the only dog in a household. I congratulate you for being on the right track with your first remark: "i have to do to show all of them we r #1 and they r all #2." I just learned that from Friday night's DW show when Cesar said it to a client. I have always favored my Lab/Shepherd, but as soon as I heard Cesar say "I'm #1 and all dogs are #2" and the lady asked, "you don't have a favorite dog?" and he said, "No!" with an incredulous look on his face! ha ha It was a big eye-opener for me. So now I'm trying not to play favorites -- it's hard 'cause I'm so in love with that dog, but I'm gonna do it.

p.s. im getting cesars book.

Hi Christy,

Yep, K2 is a different person, one that I like very much!

I'm so proud of you that you're getting a consultation with one of Cesar's people, way to go!! I think that this lady is the one in San Luis Obispo who was featured on the first Katrina show, and she looks fabulous.

I'd really be interested in what she has to say, so I hope you'll keep us informed. I think that in helping your other dogs you'll help yourself in getting through this.

We're all pulling for you, stay in touch!

Dear Christy,

Am sending you my deepest sympathy. How could you know what was going on there? We are all still learning from Cesar. Thank God he's here.

I was forced to get rid of a pet some years ago. He was part Irish Setter and we think Black Lab. He looked just like a Setter but was pure black. He was very trainable and minded me. His only problem was people. He wound up biting two boys in the neighborhood and I was just traumitized. If only Cesar was around at that time I think I could have saved him from being put down.

I wish you peace of mind after your situation and hope all continues to be harmonious with the rest of your pack. Remember what Cesar says you are vulnerable and your pack leadership can be taken away from you during weak moments with your dogs. Stay strong, calm and assertive.

Dear Nicole,

Sounds like you haven't reached "Pack Leadership" status yet. Are you coming home stressed from your day? Are you stressing out over what you will have to put up with (your dog) when you get home? This is going to be "Suck it up time". Release that tension and frustration from your mind and try to get into your calm/assertive mode before you go in that door. What does Cesar say? NO TOUCH/NO TALK/NO EYE CONTACT. Ignore her.

Where is she getting the clothes and/or shoes from that she uses to test your sanity with. Are we laying clothes and shoes all over the place and not picking up after ourselves? Ha!Ha! (Only a mother would ask this kind of question) That's me.

The way I trained my dog to bring things back to me and to drop them was to put her on a leash. Roll a ball or toss a toy no farther than the leash can reach. The leash was longer than a normal one and she was particularly fond of tennis balls. When she would pick up the ball/toy I would reel her back to me all the while saying "COME". (By the way I would sit on the floor or ground if outside when doing this. After awhile your back starts to hurt bending over for so long) When she returnd with the ball/toy I would say "DROP IT" and point to the floor or ground. This might be just as challenging as chasing her but she's not going anywhere with a leash on. If she won't drop it after a certain period of time, have another ball or toy ready to throw. Maybe she'll drop it then.

This can take some time, so hang in there. And don't forget to pick up.

Thanks GinnyC, I will try the leash on her. I keep the clothes away from her, but she gets into the hamper we have and pulls things out, perhaps I should get something higher to make it more difficult for her. The shoes we have on shelves/racks. I've been trying to keep the door closed to the bedroom so she can't grab things and I try to keep her busy with a Kong toy also.

I've been trying to teach her "Drop It" and I agree it really takes a lot of time and patience.

I've tried with Tina to not acknowledge her when I walk in the door until she's calm and sits and waits for me.

I think part of the problem is that the very beginning of her life was traumatic since she was abandoned--she was found tied to a fence with a stab wound--so I think that I didn't want her to feel like I would do that to her, therefore in a sense, spoiling her.

I'll let you know how the leash training works. Thanks a lot!

hi, i am new to the dog whisperer and i have a problem i hope someone can help me with. i have six dogs, two of which are fairly new to the pack, we have had them a few months now. i have 4 huskies, 1 cattle dog/pit/boxer mix and 1 chow/shepherd mix. the female of the husky pair that i last introduced seems to be the problem. i guess i need to know how most of you with multiple dogs feed them? at feeding time she goes from bowl to bowl intimidating everyone. and lately this has resulted in skirmishes with several of them. yesterday she apparently really upset my elderly husky female as she nows makes growling noises and bares her teeth whenever either of the pair come around, but especially bad with the female. do i need to be present at feeding time? what if they all don't eat- i hate taking up the food and leaving some without food. huskies are finicky eaters and don't eat voraciously as some dogs do so they will pass on food for hours and sometimes skip feedings if they don't feel like eating. do i just need to separate the 2 newer huskies during feeding time- they are brother and sister and seem to have some eating protocol worked out between the 2 of them- though it is odd. dumping food on the floor- eating out of the same bowl, etc. and even if i separate, if some haven't eaten she will go around to their bowls and lie there in front of them, just waiting for them to start to eat. any help will be appreciated. my husband is considering making stalls for their feeding, but i am not sure this will work. thanks for your help and i will keep reading and watching- i love my babies and want them all to be able to eat peacefully again. thanks.

Hi
This is my first time here after watching the show which has not long started here in New Zealand.
I have a 15 month old rottie/bull mastiff X who has a few agression problems which i am working on but one issue has me stumped.
There is one family friend (male) who my dog doesnt like. He will submit(my dog) but growls under his breath the whole time the person is visiting. I sometimes remove him from the room but more often get him to submit then a down stay and ignore him. The friend (thank goodness) has dogs of his own and just ignores this behaviour of my dogs.
I would really like to welcome my friend in without worrying that my dog might do more than just growl if Im not there. It is only this one person that he has ever done this with (so far).
Does any body have any ideas? Much appreciated!

We are at our wits end: I hope someone can give us some advice. We have 6 rescued dogs; 2 are litter mate female lab/chow mixes, two are mother and daughter mixed breed medium sized, one is a lab/pit mix male and one is a chow/border collie mix. The border collie/chow seems to be the aggressor who will seemingly for no reason, go after one of the two weaker dogs; the mother and daughter and start attacking. My husband will grab her to break it up and then all the dogs go into fight mode. At least one ends up at the emergency vet with stitches. We keep her and the male in kennels when we are not home because we are afraid there will be a war while we are gone. The other four get along just fine. Recently, after a fight and emergency surgery, we have had to keep the daughter separate from the rest. This has been going on for the last few months. Today, the border collie/chow went to attack the mom dog and my husband pulled her off and tried to keep the others from getting involved, but then all the others started to attack each other. The lab/chow who is usually the dominant one got hurt this time.

I travel most of the week and my husband is home trying to keep peace. After the fight tonight, he told me either we need to put the border collie/chow to sleep, find her another home or get help. I am at a loss! All I want is to have everyone get along and live in peace with my six dogs and husband. Does anyone have any advice?

Jade,
I'm not sure it's possible to convince your mom that there is a peaceful way to run a pack and what she is doing is NOT working. BUT, what I suggest for you and Sakura when you are over there for visitation is to project calm-assertive leadership and step between Dakota and your dog anytime Dakota approaches. This will show Dakota that Sakura is YOUR dog and YOU are the dominant one in the household. She will get the picture quickly, TRUST ME, and she may not respect your mom, but she will respect you while you are there. If she continues to try to approach Sakura while next to you, I would step forward into her space (not aggressively) just confidently and look her in the eye and say "Knock it Off" or whatever assertive phrase you feel confident using. I can't imagine your mom having a problem with you protecting your dog. If she does, I would let her know that she is free to handle her dogs any way she chooses, but you are choosing to be your dog's pack leader by protecting her from an outside aggressor. You sound like you are doing a great job and have a balanced animal with Sakura. I would hate to see her lose her trust and confidence in you because of your mom's dominant dog. Best of luck to you!

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