I've not heard of this lawsuit until now but as far as I'm concerned it changes nothing of my opinion of Cesar Millan. He's the best there is, period.

Re: the impending law-suit from the owners of the injured dog that was at Cesar’s DPC.

I don’t know much about it but it SMELLS like a set up to me! Wait until Cesar is out of town and take advantage of his staff by sending in a very unbalanced dog? Hmmmmmm……

I would assume that the DPC would protect itself by having clients sign waivers when they drop off their dogs.

No matter what....I love Cesar's techniques and would die to have his DPC help me with fine tuning my pooch problems. I would go there in a heartbeat if they were taking in new clients.

It's too bad that people are jumping on the bandwagon and saying that he was trying to overwork the dog. I understand his methods to include exercise, and it's too bad that an animal is injured, but it wasn't cruelty.

It is a shame that this had to turn into litigation but I suppose that is the nature of our country at this time. Nothing that I have ever seen or read about Cesar would lead me to believe that he would feel anything but terrible about a dog being injured while in the care of the DPC. Deal with enough problems over a long enough period of time and there are bound to be mistakes made. Cesar was not present at the time of this incident but he is responsible for the actions of his employees. The good that Cesar has done for so many thousands of dogs must outweigh this incident and I hope that National Geographic Channel will continue to back him. His show is the best on their network!

I hadn't heard anything about this lawsuit, but all one has to do is read his book or watch an episode of Dog Whisperer to know that he would be certain to have only the most able, conscientious and capable staff in his employ. I find it hard to believe that this is anything but frivolous suit. Nathional Geographic, please continue with your support of this animal advocate...he's done so much for so many.

I am dismayed about the lawsuits against Cesar. I think he's brilliant, and he has really helped us with our unruly boxer. We will continue in our support of the show and his method. This country is lawsuit crazy.

Cesar,

You are the best and we love you!
Dog owners need the show to go on, I learn so much from each episode. Thanks to Cesar I am able to walk two of my fighting dogs by myself now. A few months ago if they got close to each other, there was always a big fight. Now they walk next to each other, smelling grass together and enjoying the walk. Thank you Cesar!

After watching the show, I cannot believe that what happened with the dog in the lawsuit is anything but an accident. There is no way that you could fake the way the dogs act on the show or at the center. There is also no way you could fake the look on Cesar's face when he is showing affection to the dogs. It is truly love for the dogs. Being the owner of 5 dogs, I know that when you have a large group of dogs together things happen. Whatever happened to that dog could have been a reaction to another dog at the center. I'm sure the staff there did everything they could to make sure the injuries (if there truly were any) were minimized and the animal was taken care of. Cesar, you have made a big difference in my dogs' lives!

Lib - I agree. Accidents happen and The Center owes the vet bills. This doesn't diminish my admiration and respect for Cesar in any way. I'm sure the errant employee is now collecting unemployment - or should be!

I've been using Cesar's techniques for a while now and have nothing but success. The person filing the lawsuit is probably another one of those people who file against everything and everyone---regardless of how ridiculous. I back Cesar 100% -- all the way from the east coast!

I know that cesar is coming out of this experience pretty well, because he is calm and assertive. I am excited, my daughter just told me that he is going to be in new york city, over Bordens, a bookstore in Columbus Circle, this is in Manhattan,,, and I am going, the event is on May 23rd, I will let you know how It went! wohoooooo!!!

The dog that was injured sustained injuries to its esophages. The owner claimed the dog was forced to run on a tread mill and just worked too hard and injured by a choke chain. The dogs owner is the producer of "8 Simple Rules". Not that I watched the show before, but I know that is one show I will not support. The dog was injured and The DPC should be willing to pay for vet bills occurred from this incident. I know I would be upset if I ever thought anyone hurt my dog. This owner was looking for a solution to a problem he probably created, accidents happen it is too bad that this had to get so blwon out of porportion. I hope this doesn't deter people from continuing to learn these wonderful methods.

First I'd like to personally thank NGC and Cesar for the positive impact that DW has had on our household and on me personally. When we began watching ours was a one-dog household, a golden retriever named Ana. From day one she was pushy, barked constantly, chewed on us and our belongings and generally made our lives miserable.

We didn't know until Cesar told us that it was us and our entire culture making her this way. We would have gone on with this for her entire life because we had made that commitment to her. We were faced with living with gobs of hair everywhere each time she blew her coat because she did't want to be brushed. Each time she bit me when she saw the brush in my hand I'd fight tears while thinking "This should't be her decision."

Then DW came along. We did not have to endure this way of life because that's what the dog was doing, we had the power to live the way we wanted to live, and her only option was to go along with that. She became happier and more relaxed and so did we, and this happened in a calm, humane way.

As an unforeseen bonus, we also learned from Cesar that we didn't have to live with disrespect from other humans either!

We now have three dogs, all living with us in harmony and peace, including a puppy that we have raised from Day 1 using Cesar's techniques -- she put her teeth on us ONCE.

We owe Cesar a great deal, he has turned around the very quality of our lives here at home.

That said, I also want to go on the record as saying that I live in the Los Angeles area and I absolutely despise the Hollywood culture that is so pervasive here. It is rare to find people who are not calling attention to themselves; we've found that those who have the most fame and money are the ones who are driven so relentlessly for more of both.

I only know Cesar from the show and from reading his book, but it appears to me that this culture is diametrically opposed to everything that he stands for; he has achieved what they crave, and trouble is inevitable.

I'd never heard the name of this producer, but I've heard it now; unfortunately for him, at least as far as I'm concerned, this kind of fame will not work to his advantage.

Bravo NGC! Thank you for sticking up for Ceasar!

My family is behind you Caesar!

Deb,

While there may be others out there who refer to themselves as Dog Whisperers, or Horse Whisperers (the movie came out in 1998), or Ghost Whisperers (2006), there is, and always will be, only ONE great Cesar Millan.

No one here said that they are not concerned about the injured dog. All here are animal lovers and hope the best for this pet. We are all voicing our opinions on the lawsuit, which was filed by a Hollywood producer, not an injured dog.

We also do not have all the facts on the case. However, to say that Cesar or the staff he chose to work at his Center, the very essence of his being, are guilty of intentionally being cruel to animals, is preposterous.

Our whole family (human and furry alike) is grateful that NGC is standing behind Cesar, knowing that he will be handling all issues as responsibly as he always does. Having Cesar in our lives, and in all pet owners' lives, has been one of the greatest gifts we've given to both ourselves and to our pets.

Tee

It would be a good idea if we as humans realize that a very large percentage of us have a tendency to “strike out” like a “Red Zone” dog when we feel wounded, betrayed or out of control. And many of us feel like attacking others when we feel resentment. We attack others to gain what we think is control over our lives and others. We intimidate, we bully and manipulate others when we are scared and when we do not want to feel grief. Friends, relatives and many attorneys take advantage of these “Red Zone” cases and “fuels the fires” so to speak.

I was in a situation where I witnessed someone running over my dog and it was extremely traumatic but I was blessed with an experience of looking out the eyes of the woman who ran over my dog and at the same time looking out of my eyes at my dog. I use this incident to remind me of “the right thing to do” in so many situations. Many, many people will not have this experience in their lifetime. By the way I am a very non-religious person.

This is not to say that when there is a legitimate complaint that we should just sit back and be pious about it. Calm assertive people actually can negotiate with businesses or whomever and get things done. It’s the “Red Zone” humans that give humanity a bad name.

I also have to add as an aside that I faxed my support to this center AND members from our list are calling writing and emailing NG our support AND calling, writing and emailing his sponsors our thank you for standing by him and for supporttin such a marvelous show that has made such a difference in so many lives! Our voices do make a difference especially when we support in positive, non-destructive ways!

My gratitude as well to NG, this website, these blog participates for their insights, Cesar and his staff, website and DVD materials!!!

Thank you National Geographic for standing behind Cesar. It is apparent to me that he is an honest man with a very special talent for helping dogs, and people. He deserves the stardom that he has achieved because what he teaches really works. His techniques have helped my family so much that we will be forever grateful. When people become famous then some others get envious, and some even try to take advantage. Even Oprah was sued, and look at all the humanitarian work she does! I think Cesar Millan has already helped thousands of dogs (and people) and has the potential to help so many more. Cesar, you are loved by all your fans and there are a lot more dogs that need your help. Carry on the great work and don't let anything get in your way!! May you have only the best of everything always.

I would like to point out that, generally speaking, lawsuits are usually filed and announced WELL AFTER an incident occurs. People don't usually seek out an attorney until they've exhausted some efforts at settlement. It seems unlikely (to me) that these people IMMEDIATELY filed a lawsuit against Cesar, Cesar Millan, Inc. or the DP Center, or that the unfortunate incident occurred "yesterday." Therefore, the dog may have already recovered, and while we all pray for the poor injured dog (after all, we are all "dog people" here!) it's probably the case that this particular incident happened a while ago, the vet bills need to be paid, thus a lawsuit was filed. It will be interesting to learn the details as they come out. For now, people shouldn't jump to conclusions. I for one was very sad over hearing the description of the condition of the dog -- but I still have to know all the facts before I go believing everything I read in the news. No one is perfect, and should not be judged in the court of public opinion even if they were perfect.

I love this show and I'm quite certain that Cesar will come out of this situation just fine. It's quite obvious he knows and loves dogs, and wouldn't do anything to hurt one!

It's too bad how in our society people can be so eager to place blame and try to make a quick buck. People really need to take responsibilty for their own choices. Nothing you ever do comes with a one hundred percent guarantee! I remember when I dropped my little pup off at the vet for her spay surgery, signing all those scary consents saying the pup might die as a result of the surgery. It's a risk you take! Those connected to the set of "8 Simple Rules" are no strangers to lawsuits as a way to cash in. I'm sure most people know I'm referring to the former star of the show so I won't say anymore on the matter.

As for the treadmill accident, I would venture to guess it was just an accident. Having been a victim of my own clumsiness on a treadmill, I can tell you it's quite easy for one misstep or incoordinated move to send one flying off the back of the treadmill facedown. It's quite embarrassing if you're not seriously hurt. I can imagine how terribly injured I might have been if I had been "leashed" to the treadmill. Neck injury and bottom bruising would be just the beginning! I always worried that a dog might get hurt on a treadmill the way it's shown on Cesar's show if it got skittish or just missed a step. For myself, I always use the safety clip, which pulls a key out of the treadmill and stops the motor if you manage to 'fall behind' and move to far away from the center of the tread. I wondered if the dogs on the treadmills had the same safety mechanism in place? I'm sure if it hasn't been in place, someone will be smart enough to do so now.

I am so happy to read of National Geographic Channel's continued support of Cesar Millan! His work is very important in this time of disposing of dogs instead of rehabilitating them. The help he offers is immeasurable and truly makes a difference, and deeply touches the lives of dogs and humans alike.

It had to happen...you get big enough and popular enough and someone will be waiting to take you down. It is an unfortunate event but I have no doubt a complete accident. I still hold Cesar in highest regard and hope for the best outcome for this situation.

I own a pet grooming business and have had, on occassion, clients say that I coildn't properly control the dog on the table with the proper restraint so therefore the dog would be on the table without any restraint and could possibly jump off causing itself injury. I have had these few clients sign waviers saying if the dog jumps off the table and injurs itself I will NOT be held responsible. They signed the waviers and so far all has been fine and no dogs have even attempted to jump off but if they do the wavier is in place to protect me. I do have insurance but the insurance is only effective if the dog is properly restrained so the wavier was necessary for my protection.

I am New to this blog and show I've only been watching for about 4 months now and am very inpressed. I have been in the pet industry for over 15 yrs and already practice Cesar's techniques and hope with this show and his techniques more and more people will follow his Philosophy and not just rely on the "New School" way of strictly Positive reenforcment. Although it is effective on some dogs it isn't on many.

I support Cesar and his center and see this as an unfortunate accident that has been blown out of proportion because of his stardom.

Keep up the good work Cesar and work through this with you Calm assertive energy!!

The term "dog lovers" kind of makes me think and doubt,,, one thing is to be a dog lover and other dog knwoledgable,,, this country love dogs,,, pet stores, the pet industry is humongous, lots of dog lovers out there,,, yet the animal shelters are so over populated with unwanted dogs... As Cesar said: "let's be fair",,, dogs don't know that much, humans reason and have the capability to know way much better.

If it were my dog, I would be upset, and I would want my vet bills paid. But a lawsuit???? Who would like to go through all of that. I am sure the people who filed the lawsuit do it either because of greed (hey, it's Cesar, he's famous, we can get lots of money) or are looking for their 15 minutes of fame.

I think if the dog was hurt, then the vet bills should be paid, but the charge of animal cruelty is over the line. Walking a dog on a treadmill is not cruel -- NOT walking the dog is what is cruel. People make mistakes and this should have been settled out of court. I'm sure the people responsible feel bad enough about it without having this TV producer make a public spectacle out of it. Besides, this lawsuit isn't going to make the dog feel any better.

SO I have a question maybe someone can help me with. I have a dog and he definately does not "rule the house". I exercise him everyday... and play ball with him to get all prey drive out (cause I have a cat). The only problem I have with him is that he's really scared of people. If they ignore him while we are outside, he's fine. But as soon as they look at him and try to pet him, he freaks out and hides behind my legs. At home, if we have ppl come into the house, he runs into his crate or a corner and barks and growls.
I've tried bringing him out to meet people and he will sniff them, calm down, but as soon as they move, he'll start woofing again.
It's not that he doesn't respond to being "tsst!" but 2 minutes later he's back to woofing and hiding between my legs.

I guess my question is, should I keep doing what I've been doing? And if anyone has any suggestions to what else I can do to help the whole feark of ppl thing. Thanks!

Ditto on what K2 said. I would be taking my dogs out 2-3 times a week on a very short walk due to fear of loose dogs, & some of my dogs pulling me.I take them out every morning idividually while they trot next to my bike without pulling, we walk/ride/walk/ride. my husband comes a few time a week & we each take a dog & have a great time doing something together & our dogs are happy & well excersized! all thanks to Cesar, I am more confident at work, able to make more solid decisions & have more joy in life, because i'm being freed from these fears. All i can say is Thank you Cesar.

"The only problem I have with him is that he’s really scared of people. If they ignore him while we are outside, he’s fine. But as soon as they look at him and try to pet him, he freaks out and hides behind my legs."

You've answered your own question! Stop allowing strangers to "try to pet him." Follow Cesar's rules: no talk, no touch, no eye contact" - have them ignore him completely and let HIM make the first moves.

Try to see Cesar's episide with "Maddy" the fearful dog...it will help you a LOT!

Cheryl B.
Unfortunatly, my full time job is in the Insurance business. There is liability insurance for this type of business. Kind of like "Doggy Daycare".I'm sure he pays a steep premium too. California is much like New York when it comes to Insurance. EXPENSIVE!!!! Wish I didn't know that!! Wish I only knew about "Dog Stuff"!

Evie,
When I take any dog around people or dogs, I correct my dog so he will know not to do bad behavior. That includes biting or some aggressive behavior. I walk them through crowds of people and keep on walking (on a leash) so the mind will keep going. It really shouldn't be a problem except if you try to handle many fearful dogs at once. If it's just one dog it should be fine. Do you feel like you don't have any control over this fearful one?

Lezlee

Ok... I have heard differing ammounts on the lawsuit ammount... $25,000 is being bandied about in some places.

Yes, I feel sorry for the injured dog and I have a feeling (though I cannot say one way or another, since THAT part of the story has not been publicised) that offers for payment of vet bills were probably made and Cesar has probably done a full investigation as to what happened, who was present, how it could have happened, ect...

BUT... to sue for $25,000??? I see cases all day long on TV where people are hurt... INTENTIONALLY by others and they get the small claims court and maybe get $5000.

I hate to say it, but animals, even our beloved pets, are property... if my service pup in training gets kicked to death while we are walking by a man who hates dogs I would not be able to sue him for $25,000... I would get at most the replacement cost of a puppy and the judge would tell me that I could not sue for pain and suffering because I was not the one in pain, if I tried to sue for emotional distress I would probably be told "it was a dog, get over it".

Cesar has my full support... period! He has done so very much for so many animals... he was the last resort for some people and because of his intervention there are dogs alive today that would have been put to sleep not because the dog was unsalvagable but because the owners did not know how to live with them. The dog in question was probably sent to Cesar's center because hsi owner could not control him.

Cesar, if you see this... know that those who have watched you, been to your seminars or read your books believe in you!

Who knows... maybe we should have a 1000 dog walk in support... my little Loki (17 week old chihuahua service dog in training) would be right in the thick of it networking the crowd... something he would not be able to do without your advice and suggestions, I used your techniques to get him past his painfully shy attitude around people and dogs... without you he would not have the chance to train to be my service dog and helper.

Penny

michael-

I just read your PDF... so you are advocating not spaying or neutering dogs as well as not microchipping claiming that it will kill dogs????

I don't even know what to say... other than I have not read such a rambling pile of **** in my life.

I'm advocating dogs.

Because I am a true advocate of dogs and their owners.

And that there is nothing wrong with dogs the way they were born. Or any of their body parts. And that the government has no business telling me to have surgery on my dog. Or telling me that I have to implant a microchip or go to jail otherwise.

Lezlee,

My dog isn't aggressive. If someone reaches out to pet him, he'll cower behind my legs and look down at the floor and let the people pet him. But he *is* scared. And once the people, leave, he'll relax.
I never talk to him or pet him because I know that'll just encourage the the fear behavior... I let him take is time to come out of the corner and sniff people... but it takes him like a full day to "get over it". He does this thing where he'll stretch his whole body out to sniff someone while softly woofing. And then he'll either run away or avoid them.
I've tried bringing him to the people, but he'll freeze up and stop in his tracks, or he'll go up, sniff, and back off really quickly.
It just feels like his "get over it" time is really really long. I don't want to blame this on his breed or anything like that... but I'm starting to think he may be paranoid or something, up in his head.

I'm advocating for dog owners to be able to make their own decisions about their dogs. If you want to spay or neuter your dog, I'm not going to try to force you not to. If you want to put a microchip in your dog, I'm not going to try to stop you.

Don't try to force me to have surgery on my dog and we won't have a problem.

Neutering a dog increases the risk for prostate cancer. That's one reason why I won't neuter my dog. I have an 11 year old who has barely been to the vet in his life. For shots only. He's healthy, happy, intact and wonderful to life with, wonderfully trained.

PS, again, if I want to microchip my dogs, I'll do it on my own. It's none of the government's business.

michael,

I totally understand the whole theory behind "doing what you want with your dog" and not have anyone forcing you to neuter/spay/whatever. It seems like a GREAT idea... on paper.
Unfortunately, you live in a society, and that means there are rules, regulations, based on the needs and wants of the MAJORITY of the people. You may not be in the majority or agree with it, but you still need to follow their rules and regulations.
It's great that *you* have a happy healthy intact dog who is wonderfully trained, but what about all the people who aren't as responsible? It's not that YOU are wrong when you say that you don't neuter dog, but the fact is that some people just are not that responsible. They don't neuter or spay and they end up with litters and litters of puppies that no one wants. They don't have the means to vaccinate them or take them to the vets, so they dump them, give them away to anyone who will take them, etc.
So between the stupid people who don't know how to care for dogs and the people who are irresponsible AND the general reputation of unneutered males (that they are aggressive, etc.) you really put yourself in a bad place. There are a million scenarios I can think of where having an intact male dog is just not that great of an idea.
What if he runs away one day for whatever reason and somehow fathers a litter with a stray? That's another litter of puppies we dont need with all the unwanted dogs out there in the shelters.
What if he bites someone for some reason (maybe kids were teasing him) and you get handed a lawsuit? It would be so much easier for the accuser to win the case because your dog was unneutered.
What if he gets into a fight with another intact male and kills the other dog? Once again, because of the way society views intact males, it'll be your fault.
I'm sure you're thinking that these things may never happen to you, but what *if* they do. As a dog owner, you should take all precautions to avoid trouble. Already a lot of places are banning off leash dog parks and owning certain breeds of dogs because of their reputation. And if you truly stand by your "I'll do whatever I want with my dog"... fine, but keep in mind that not everyone who reads your opinion is smart enough to have that intact dog responsibly.

can anyone tell me what to do when my male tibetan terrier (6 mos) starts to "hump" my leg?? Was there a progrom that addressed this issue? thanks!

Evie,

I appreciate your comments. There are those who view dogs as a problem to society. "Animal Control" types benefit by making dogs out to be a menace that they have to control and save society from. They are the types who created the legislation I'm fighting and which Cesar unfortunately supported. Although he was not actually at the hearing in LA. He sent of his people to the hearing to say that he supported the legislation.

Dogs are not a menace. They are a benefit to society. Their owners live longer. Neighborhoods with dogs are safer and property values are higher.

Are dogs dangerous and bad for society? Let's look at the most dangerous...

For every child killed by a pitbull, hundreds are killed by their own mothers. Mothers are not inherently dangerous. All in all, they are relatively good for children, despite the fact that they "turn" and strangle, burn, choke, drown, slice or shoot them once in a while.

There is no hysteria about mothers. There is great hysteria and fear and misinformation about dogs. Dogs will never be perfect. They will always bite. If there are no dog bites, there will be no dogs.

For dogs to have a future, there must be understanding and tolerance of them and their behavior. Sure, I'm brilliant, and like Cesar says "there is NO dog I can't train." I'm with him on that one. And I will teach people like Cesar does and I will probably end up on another network (but that's not important right now...)

But more and more, governments, cities and hysterical legislators are concocting legislation that his hateful towards dogs and their owners and it must be resisted tooth and nail.

It's all about intolerance for dogs and their body parts and their behavior. If dogs are not perfect, they must be muzzled, neutered, banned or eliminated. That's is really where the legislative trend is heading.

Dogs are not perfect and they never will be (god bless em')

Don't FEAR the legislation. Fight it. Don't FEAR dogs, understand them and train them.

PS, the worst behaved dogs I deal with in my videos are neutered chows who tried to kill eachother, who ate through doors, bit several people and caused no end of mayhem.

that's all for now

Doggone,

Cesar is good at what he does. The main reason I went off on him is because of the fact that he supported the legislation in LA. It got me a little bit into the "red zone."

michael,

You are irresponsible advocating not spaying/neutering and microchiping your dog. Go and visit a shelter, maybe it will change your mind. I volunteer with animal rescue, where most pets get because someone didn't neuter their dog/cat. Are you ok with killing millions of dogs and cats every year because there just aren't enough owners? I see that you really don't care about dogs, yours maybe, but not any others.

michael,

but until then, your personal choices are still leaving not just you, but the rest of us in a bad place. you may be willing to risk yourself and your dogs, don't drag the rest of us dog ppl down with you.

"Now, should I correct him if he growls/woofs?"

Of course you should...as long as you understand, and can convey to him, that "correction" does not mean punishment. You can give him a collar correction, move him so he is not facing what is scaring him, walk away, give him an obedience command or trick command that he knows well. What you need to do, above all, is break his concentration on what is bothering him...and if you can do this BEFORE he gets to the growling/woofing stage that's even better!

Evie,

It's unfortunate that you think I'm dragging you down. I intend to lift you and all dog owners up.

And I will.

I'm unstoppable.

I am a little bit crazy. But that's what makes me GOOD.

doggone,

yah, that's what I figured... thought I'd ask just to be sure! thanks for your help, I'm gonna try this out when the pizza guy comes in a little bit.

k2,

I saw episodes of the "Dog Whisperer" for the first time last week. I saw the episode with Katy the Akita, and with the little white terrier and some other episodes. I also saw a pitbull cower when Cesar got near him back at his Dog Psychology center. I also saw him clock a few dogs in the mouth when they were acting up (not hard, but he did hit them in the mouth). I'm not saying any of that is good or bad. But I will say that that pitbull was not cowering because Cesar "whispered" to him. But again, I'm sure he saved that pitbull's life, so I'm not slamming Cesar. I'm providing my expert observations on dogs and dog trainers and their methods. I'm not a hater. I haven't been drinking any haterade.

I also saw Cesar get pretty good results, all in all. I saw nothing that says he does not love or care about dogs. I'm sure he does. I have differences with his constant stress on "dominance." But now is not really the time or place to stress on that.

I'm a straight shooter. And I'm also an expert not only on dogs, but on dog trainers themselves. I can tell what school of thought they come from after seeing them in action. And I think my portrayal is accurate that he comes out of the "Koehler" lineage and philosophy of Dog Training. But he certainly has his own unique spin.

Nothing wrong with that. Competition is good for the business.

For Evie,
When I'm out and about training my dogs I tell people who are approaching that "they are in training or he is in training" and they BACK OFF QUICK!!!!!! That's all I have to say to them.
For Michael,
I use to work with dysfunctional families and yes most in the counseling field are appalled by what parents do to their kids. So it may be that as a world consciousness a large percentage of humans may not be very good dog owners. I use to work at two different kennels that do rescue and have seen some very bad cases. Most dog owners I worked with really do not know how to handle their dogs. I see it all the time when I sit at the vets office watching.
Lezlee

Hey,

I'm guilty as charged. I guess I am arrogant, but so is Howard Stern. So is Don Rumsfeld. I love Stern but I hate Rumsfeld. To each his own. I can't be anything I'm not. I'm great with dogs. No apologies. You'll see.

Everything you said was great until you said "You'll see." What the heck does THAT mean?

k2... it means he's cocky... and probably trying to compensate for something

"Now, what do I do when he sees the person on the other side and just woofs through the correction?"

Well...hang a sign on the outside that says "if I don't answer right away, I'm training my dog!" and then, if you have to, work with him. Put a lead on him, get between him and the door - "claim" the door. Correct him as necessary...just like if you were walking him and he wanted to woof at someone, or get too focused on someone or something.

Cesar has had several episodes, quite a few in fact, where he works with dogs with issues about doors and visitors. Try to see a few of them.

Michael,

Glad to hear you don't believe this isn't the "time or PLACE" to go into all the tributes to youself. Take a hint, this will NEVER be the place. You might want to take another look at who's name is on this Blog..and there's no "michael" in it.

You've answered how you don't want your rights infringed upon concerning getting your dogs nuetered. I've YET to hear one single person who advocates not doing this on what should be done with the millions of unwanted dogs who are born and killed each year because of irresponsible owners???
Personally, I think people like you shoud be the ones adopting them all. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, then rational people might listen.

If you can't see past your own needs then you have no business being any kind of trainer, never mind with dogs.
You may think you're on the road to success, but I'd have to say you're living in a dream world.

Lezlee,

I think I've heard enough about Michael...I'll skip going to his site. :)

Sophia,
I can see Michael is definitely is not making any friends or fans here. His last name and phone # is on his website. Some humans snarl and bite alot so maybe he could use some training.
Lezlee

k2,

that's AWESOME. I don't care who helped you as long as you got helped. My focus is actually on fitness with dogs. Running with dogs. Biking with dogs. Walking with dogs for long distances. This is key to any approach to living happily with dogs. Glad Cesar helped you find it and find leadership.

No, the key to any success with dogs is confidence and charisma. Lots of people are afraid to be confident, or maybe they aren't confident in other areas of their lives, but anyone can be confident with a dog! You just do it! Charisma maybe is not so easy to teach or aquire. That is something that some people just naturally have.

One of the things I am impressed about Cesar is that he is good with people. They are the dog owners and that is what is so very important. The dog is not going to sign up by themselves, but the owners are. To have a business one needs to be good with the folks who are paying the bill. No matter how good someone is with dogs, if they are not good with people, it's a turn off.
Lezlee

Yes Lezlee, Cesar is very good with people. I promise to learn something from him if you do too!

Debbie RBW,

Ah-so...I can see you are a Kung Fu fan from the seventies! So was I. Excellent training Grasshopper!
Lezlee

michael-

I applaud you for thinking you are the "Great I am" when it comes to dog training...

You detest the shelters where dogs are put to sleep, numbers of those same dogs beloved pets who's owners were probably looking for them, but for ome reason those dogs slipped through the cracks and were not reunited but instead put to sleep by shelters that are over-run and under-funded, they have only so much space... and there are too many out there not spaying or neutering so more and more dogs are born to feed that grist mill.

A few years ago I found a maltise walking along the road at 3am, I took him home and the next morning called the local animal control and all the shelters in my area to tell them I had found him so if his owner was looking we could return him. I had that little dog for 7 days and when the owner was finally found we discovered that the owner had called the same agencies to report their dog missing, but with so many animals both missing and found it slipped through the cracks. We had the dog scanned for a microchip the first full day we had him and there was not one. If he had been chipped he would have been home that day.

You think that it is against your civil liberties to have your pet microchipped for his and your protection. I hate to break it to you... a dog is a possession... the same way you have to register your car and have it inspected your dog must be tracked for public safety. Your dog does not have civil liberties, he is a possession.

Maybe you do make sure that your intact dog does not breed, but there are irresponsible people who could care less... neutering just strikes them as wrong... they see it as an attack against masculinity.

As for being on TV... I have been on TV as well, but that did not make me think I was the only expert in the world or even an expert period... I just happened to be on TV.

Do not equate yourself with Cesar... he has eared the trust and gratitude of thousands, all you have done is used his Blog for your fifteen minutes of fame... guess what... time's up.

Penny,

I don't view dogs as a public safety hazard. As a dog owner, and as someone who truly loves dogs, however, I do view you and people with your kind of attitude as a public safety hazard.

As far as I am concerned, this is a war. You are either for dogs and their owners, or you are against them. You think dogs are the problem, or you think the "system" is the problem.

I know what the problem is. That's why I'm an expert.

have a great night!

C'mon folks, this is Cesar's Blog. Enough about me. I'm just a simple, humble up and comer. Don't worry about lil' ol' me...

Let's recess until tomorrow.

Yo, Michael, guess you didn't read the guidelines before posting that site of yours. Links like that are not allowed, which is a good thing in this case, that bit of tomfoolery will be deleted and we can get back to the topic of giving Cesar our support.

Good Morning All!!!!

I hope you are all well this morning and doing better than when all this mess (it's called a rant or thread mess on a technical wiki) happened on this blog.

I have learned how to clean up or "talk" on what would be the hardest type of website I've ever worked with in my life, called a wiki and am also an administrator for a very large website community that at times can go crazy.....the posts on here are what I would call one of those times on the forum I help manage!lol

Here are a few hints to help when someone says things that are out of line, provacable, rude, or completely uncalled for in this enviroment.....IGNORE IT, do not respond to the post or person, and if all else fails.....get up and walk away from the computer for a few minutes if it gets you riled up that much!!!!lololol (I've had to do that a few times!hahahaaaa) Pretty soon the post or link will be removed by the administrator and poof....it's gone!lol

People who are antagonistic, rude, out of line, off topic, or not here to use this blog for which it was intended, will go away if no one responds to them. I've seen it a million times and if you can do that.....things will stay calm and this blog will go right back to what it was created for! Sometimes it's hard and I've wanted to punch the screen (lol) on quite a few occasions, but it's SO worth it to not respond!!!!!!

I hope all of you have a fabulous day and if things heat up on here again today.....apply the six month rule....is this going to matter in six month's???...That rule alone makes not responding to someone, who is here to cause trouble so easy!! :D

On a different note: I continue to pray for you Cesar and pray you and your family are well! Keep up the awesome work and thank you so much for helping me to better understand my Rott, so he can have a better life being a dog!!! :) KathyB

I am not a fan of his techniques (I find them dated, and dangerous..sure they work, but there are IMO better ways proven to to this...just no incrediably charismatic person is currently championing them to the public lol)

But my questions would be, how does he choose his staff? Is he responsible for hiring and training them..if not why so. Was this the only other staff member working that day. If not why did no one stop them if what they were doing was so far off what was normally done.

If he chose this person and trained them..then to a point he is responisble for thier behaviour...same as any other employee.

While I and many other behaviouralists and dog trainers are not a fan of this show as it shows techinques that could seriously back fire if an untrained person tried them at home. I was very shocked to hear the news of the lawsuit.

KathyB,
I totally agree with you...I wrote the comment #32 and that guy is the classic example of "fueling the fire". AND it was so easy to get caught up in it.

And to Kerri,
I really don't believe that we will know all the details about what happened.

Lezlee

KathyB,

Good morning to you. Excellent suggestions about ignoring. Sometimes people say things that are so provocative that you cannot stop thinking if these people are for real. But if you try to say something, it only adds fire. Ignoring sounds like a great idea.
Nothing turns me off to people faster than them being so full of themselves. They can do the best things for the world, but if they always say they are the best, the experts or brilliant I don't want to have to do anything with them. I love Cesar because he is such a humble, down to earth man.

Debbie RBW,

You are so right about positive only methods. The Petsmart trainer, who does good job with this method teaching puppies to sit, down etc. told me that there is no way my two fighting dogs will ever be together again. I shouldn't even try to work on them. Ha, ha, ha... A couple months later I am able to walk both of them together, next to each other, sniffing the same mailbox, all by myself. Thanks to Cesar and his methods. Giving my dogs treats would not work! Each time I see the trainer I want to tell her that she was wrong, and she should watch Cesar (but since I am a polite person, I am not going to do that).

Michelle,

I appreciate that. This is a tough crowd. You see, I'm not all bad...

Joanna,

I have this rule in my house (to keep my dog from jumping on ppl when he was a puppy) where if the someone knocks, he goes to sit by the door. I'd tell him to lie down when he started barking at first cause someone told me they can't bark as well when they are lying down. So now, he just growls/woofs the entire time.

It's not that he doesn't listen or can't obey commands. He'll do everything (sit, wait, lie down, etc.) ... but if someone is there, he'll stare at me, keep one ear turned towards the person and just "woof woof woof".

I don't want to say he's out of control, cause he really isn't. I just don't understand this whole woofing quietly through everything. I'd much rather have him just be scared, cause I can work with that much more easily than him just woofing constantly.

Michael,

That Pit Bull was not cowering! Cowering is a fearful ears-back, waiting-to-be-hit, crouch. I saw the dog lie down calmly in a gesture of canine submission.

I also saw Cesar give some of the dogs his quick hand "nip" on the neck, (not a hit in the face!) to move them away from a stare down with the new dog. This mimics a canine correction that dogs use with their puppies.

With these fairly mild techniques he has allowed dogs that formerly bloodied each other regularly, to live harmoniously together.

I can see how some people might misuse or misinterpret Cesar's techniques. He does use force to stop certain behaviors, but always with a great sensitivity to how the animal is responding. (ie in the rock dog show he quickly abandoned his first intervention - the nip and tsst - because it was not working with that dog. He put a leash on it to control it better, rather than escalate the other correction.)

Surely some people will try to apply Cesar's techniques without his level of awareness and sensitivity. That does not invalidate the technique. It just shows that it takes a certain amount of experience and expertise to deal with a difficult problem.

That's great news Ewa!

My own dog came to me so full of fear, shaking all over, submissive peeing, and very mistrustful of people.

Everywhere I went people would not leave her alone and kept shoving cookies in her face, which freaked her out even more. I had get pretty tough at times, "no touch, no talk, no eye contact", with all of the people who kept doing this and coddling her with their, "Oh, poooor little doggie!", squecky voices, Yikes!

As Cesar mentions, these dogs do take longer than dogs who are messed-up and unblanced on other ways, but you should see her now!

I do use positive reinforcement in it's PROPER place, too.

But the "Positive Only" method would not have freed this dog from her fear. Being a calm/assertive and stable Pack Leader for her, is what it took. She learned that no matter what she was afraid of, she was always safe in my presence and never felt "attacked" by me when asked to face her fears.

I love working with these fearful dogs. :)

Deb

Joanna,

Like I've said, my beef is not with Cesar's methods. It's with his support of legislation which will put me in jail for refusing to have unnecessary and harmful surgery on my puppy by the age of four months. Who will take care of my puppy if I'm in jail?

Sarah,

I've been in the LA area for three months. I have yet to see ONE stray dog on the streets anywhere. I don't see any "dog overpopulation CRISIS!" And please don't tell me to "go to a shelter." In many other countries in the world there are dogs on the streets. A lot more than there are here. And there is no CRISIS!!

Shelters are for people who don't care about dogs. If you drop a dog off at a shelter, you are someone who does not care about dogs. If you work at a shelter and you get paid to kill dogs, you do not care about dogs. I"m concerned about people who TRULY care about dogs. And their rights.

I'll never stop fighting against those who want to criminalize dogs and their owners. The road to hell is paved with some really great ideas.

Michael,

You are surely living in a dream world. Just because you haven't seen a stray dog in three months does not mean they are not out there. It probably has alot more to do with the fact that animal control is on top of their job.

Of course you don't want to go to a kill shelter...your dream would be shattered to see how many dogs are killed everyday.

Sir, you need to wake up to at least the reality that 5 MILLION dogs and cats are killed each year because there are NOT enough homes to take them in.

Again, you don't address the primary question, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? Until you can address that YOU are contributing to the deaths of these living creatures as surley as the people who drop off these unwanted dogs, pick up these unwanted dogs off the streets and do the acutal killing.

DEAR BLOG SUPERVISOR...... it seems that this 'Michael' is really irritating a lot of folks here and instead of being a helpful blog it's turning into a warzone. Any way to block him from posting?

The rest of us highly value and support Cesar and his methods and want to stand behind him and support each other. Isn't this 'Cesar's Blog' and therefore should be for people like us, not people like Michael?

Ignore "it", and "it" will go away. Feed "it", and "it" will be rewarded. Although "any attention is better than no attention" is not part of "dog psychology", this does apply to "human psychology", and bored humans with personal agendas.

All dogs born add to the pet population and the statistics, period.

Most regular pet-dog owners cannot properly "manage" an intact dog and prevent "accidents", period.

Sarah,

again, it's hysterical nonsense to say that I'm contributing to the problem when my dogs aren't breeding. Please ease back on the fear and hysteria. That's all I'm asking.

How did this site all of the sudden become about Michael? Who cares? Has he written a book? Does he have a show on NGC? Let's get back to someone who does have charm and charisma without having to point it out every few blogs...Ceasar!

Michael,
And all I'm asking is you wake up out of your dream world...at least acknowledge the five million deaths each year for unwanted dogs and cats.

As per scientific research...that's exactly what I'm referring to.

Positive reinforcement is great but is not the answer to all problems. According to my experience as a volunteer in an animal shelter, positive reinforcement works best when you are teaching a dog some tricks or help the dog to achieve better manners. In the "red zone" cases when a dog wants to kill another dog, do you think that by giving him/her a treat will stop that behavior? Trainers who criticize Cesar's method and say that positive reinforcement is the only way, are just not true trainers. To be a good trainer you need to have an open mind to all methods (of course without hurting the animal) and to improvise according to the situation.
In a real case, my friend adopted a dog about two years ago who had a serious aggression issue towards other dogs. She went to one of the so called "new school" dog trainer who strictely uses positive reinforcement. After a few sessions the trainer admitted that she couldn't handle the case and recommended my friend to put the dog to sleep and said that there is no way to fix this dog. Luckily she never gave up on this dog and she went to seek another trainer who uses a similar method like Cesar and wow, now they can go to dog parks, runs outdooor and do any activities. I do respect all these trainers who has done a great job in this field such as Andrea Arden, Ian Dunbar and the great Jean Donaldson. But I would like to ask them why are so many dogs euthanized every year for some behavioral issues if positive reinforcement could have fixed the problem. I would love to also challenge one of this new school trainers to handle a red zone case and see how well they can do.

Cesar, you are my idol and inspiration. Since I started watching your show I learned so much about dogs and because of your show I started to volunteer in one of the rescue organizations and I can say that this is one of the best decision I have made in my life. I am glad I did, it feels so good being able to help these animals. There is a satisfaction and accomplishment that no words can describe. Keep up the good work Cesar and don't mind what people say about you.

Hey guys, there's nothing wrong with a bit of arguing. I think we can tolerate people who disagree with each other on this blog. Otherwise it could be just a self-congratulatory love-in, with no alternative viewpoints to consider.

I can relate to both sides of this argument. As a dog owner aware of the horrible death toll and misery of caged dogs and cats in shelters, I have always neutered ALL my pets. As a parent who refused certain vaccines for my newborn babies (which were in fact later withdrawn due to too high levels of mercury preservatives,) I am wary of government mandates on personal medical issues.

I think this is an interesting discussion, setting aside some of the chest-beating puffery that is. If you want to refer people to outside information, why not just name the site (blahblahblah dot org) instead of providing the forbidden link?

Hi Evie,

I would correct my dog for barking suspiciously at someone that I have already let into my house. That's not really her job or decision to make. I did give my very sweet-natured but sometimes suspicious Belgian shep some pretty hard (leash jerk) corrections for barking at strangers she would see in the woods while we were hiking. She took the hint and now approaches people in the woods with tail wagging.

You should take this advice with a grain of salt, cuz I am not an expert, and you know your own dog. I wouldn't want to just add more stress from corrections where stress already exists! I got this advice from other folks, and it felt right for me in that circumstance. I'm thinking that Akitas are also are guarding type breed (hey guys, please don't flame me for bringing breed characteristics into this!) so she may really need to learn when it's not appropriate.

"A solution (and probably at this point the only solution) to not having to see the horribly sad segments on Animal Cops is to have dogs neutered and spayed."

And why would you think that a neutered animal ("neutered" BTW, is the generic...properly they are castrated and spayed) could not be abused?

" A peaceful painless death is still a death. I’m not sure what part of that is hard to understand."

Why do you think I don't understand? I understand death, I've had dogs for 30 years and have lost both my parents. What I don't agree with is that death is the worst that can happen to a dog. It is not. And until a universal solution is found that ONLY targets the cruel and careless owners, I find death to be preferable to torture. What about THAT don't YOU understand?

"And exactly what is your solution that’s better than most?
In a precious post you said you had none. "

Right, I said I had no solution...but I also stated that ENFORCED leash and confinement laws are a good START.

"

Sarah,

here's some defense for my undefensible position:

Canine prostate carcinoma: epidemiological evidence of an
increased risk in castrated dogs.

Teske E, Naan EC, van Dijk EM, Van Garderen E, Schalken JA.

Department of Clinical Sciences of Companion Animals,
Utrecht University, P.O. Box 80.154, 3508 TD, Utrecht, The
Netherlands

The present retrospective study investigated the frequency
of prostate carcinoma (PCA) among prostate abnormalities in
dogs and determined whether castration influences the
incidence of PCA in dogs. During the years 1993-1998, 15363
male dogs were admitted to the Utrecht University Clinic of
Companion Animals, and of these dogs 225 were diagnosed
with prostatic disease. In addition, another 206 male dogs
were diagnosed as having prostatic disease based on
cytologic examination of aspiration biopsies submitted by
referring veterinarians. Benign prostatic hyperplasia was
diagnosed in 246 dogs (57.1%), prostatitis in 83 dogs
(19.3%), and PCA in 56 dogs (13%). Dogs with PCA were
significantly older (mean age=9.9 years) than dogs with
other prostatic diseases (mean age=8.4 years). The Bouvier
des Flandres breed had an increased risk (odds ratio
(OR)=8.44; 95% CI 4.38-16.1) of having PCA. Castration
(26/56) increased the risk (OR=4.34; 95% CI 2.48-7.62) of
PCA. The mean age at diagnosis of PCA in castrated dogs and
in intact male dogs was not significantly different. The
interval between castration and onset of prostatic problems
was highly variable, suggesting that castration does not
initiate the development of PCA in the dog, but it does
favour tumor progression.

Doggone,

So laws governing how we maintain our animals is not out of the quesiton. Though containment and leash laws are good, they are next to impossible to enforce and when they are it's after the fact. So, we're back to square one. What to do about all these unwanted dogs and cats?

Nobody I've ever known or heard of who is involved in animal rescue, you know, the ones who are on the front lines having to witness these wonderful creatures being put down everyday, has been able to come up with any other practical solution but to encourage, at the very least, having dogs and cats spayed and neutered. Call it castration, it is still better than death.

I'll tell you a true story. A person I know spent 25yrs working at a humane society, he being the one to put down these animals every day.
One day after 25yrs of this job, he released all the animals and gave himself the shot. Thankfully, he did not succeed in killing himself...but, the poor man could not take this anymore.

So, cry me a river about personal rights...I've heard and seen enough to know that the only practical solution is castration (I'm not afraid of the word) and spaying.

I don't know how else to explain it, but fewer unwanted dogs and cats equals less animals to be abused. The equation seems simple enough.
The less unwanted animals the more room there is for those who are born and still wind up unwanted at no kill shelters and rescue organizations.

I'm fully aware that no amount of lesgislation and education will stop all animal abuse, but that's no excuse not to keep trying.

Sarah,

your equation equals less dogs and cats at any cost. Regardless of how you get rid of them. You don't are about dogs or their owners. There is a mindless zeal behind your agenda. The agenda is all you care about. Not individual dogs and their owners.

That's why people such as myself find your movement and your message disturbing. And that's why this is a war.

Michael

I have to stop skimming posts. I wasn't even aware of this.I just did a search for that info and found this (if you have more updated info please post it)

All dogs to be spayed or neutered unless their owner purchases a $60 intact animal license (currently $30) and meets the stringent criteria established by the county. The measure further requires all dogs, whether sterilized or intact, to be microchipped and increases the fee to license a sterilized animal from $15 to $20. A first violation will result in a fine not to exceed $250 and a second violation is a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in county jail and/or a fine up to $1,000.

I really doubt that people are going to be sent to jail if they don’t comply although I’m 100% for neutering and spaying all my animals have had the surgeries done. It looks like people may have to anti up more money to keep an intact dog but there won’t be enough judges in the world to hear all the cases much less the jails to hold the offending pet owners.

Some men just can’t deal with having their male dog neutered I guess it’s a guy thing but really why not have your dog neutered? The prostate issue is really moot at this juncture.
And I don’t think that micro chipping as a bad idea.

I feel I need to point out to people that laws are not made for SPECIFIC people, it's made for the GENERAL population. Michael, you may have your beef with certain laws... and if you want to change those laws you're going to have to change the behavior and the morality of the MAJORITY of the population.

There's a state law in New York that says "No Parking on Railroad Tracks. State Law." No kidding.
Laws are there to protect stupid people from themselves. Normal ppl with common sense don't need someone to tell them not to park on the railraod tracks. In the case of this entire ridiculous bantering of opinions, it's to prevent irresponsible people from owning a potentially dangerous animal that could cause more problems. Just because YOU are a good owner doesn't mean everyone else is.

Don't blame the gov't for trying to help stupid people. They're just doing their job.

You want to change things? Then learn how to talk to people and how to express your opinions in a charistmatic non-offensive way. The only good you are doing is irritating people and pissing them off. No one is ever going to listen to you with that kind of attitude.

Can't you see the disconnect between your 2 statements:

"Though containment and leash laws are good, they are next to impossible to enforce and when they are it’s after the fact."

"has been able to come up with any other practical solution but to encourage, at the very least, having dogs and cats spayed and neutered."

If leash laws can't be enforced, why sould you thing it's possible to enforce neutering requirements?

" So, we’re back to square one. What to do about all these unwanted dogs and cats?"

Well, for one thing...concentrate real hard on the word "unwanted"...except for animals parented by 2 feral animals (fairly rare in most places) EVERY animal in a shelter HAD an owner. The question is: how to target those owners without ALSO targeting responsible owners.

"Nobody I’ve ever known or heard of who is involved in animal rescue, you know, the ones who are on the front lines having to witness these wonderful creatures being put down everyday, has been able to come up with any other practical solution but to encourage, at the very least, having dogs and cats spayed and neutered. Call it castration, it is still better than death."

Why? Why is neutering better than death, if life means torture? The practical reality is that owners responsible enough to neuter their animals, or to properly manage their intact animals, ALREADY do one or the other. It's the irresponsible owners that need to be targeted, but mandatory neutering laws will only hurt the responsible owners of intact animals and won't affect at all the irresponsible ones...because if they were responsible enough to obey such laws, they would ALREADY be neutering their animals and there would be no need for such laws. And yes, that's a circular argument...it always is.

"I’ll tell you a true story. A person I know spent 25yrs working at a humane society, he being the one to put down these animals every day.
One day after 25yrs of this job, he released all the animals and gave himself the shot. Thankfully, he did not succeed in killing himself…but, the poor man could not take this anymore."

Sad. But he could have saved his own life and worked to have the shelter be converted into a no-kill shelter. His wasted life could have been better used for fund raising for THAT reality, instead of the reality he faced every day of dealing with death. He had alternatives...he just chose not to see them.

"So, cry me a river about personal rights…I’ve heard and seen enough to know that the only practical solution is castration (I’m not afraid of the word) and spaying."

And, again, how will you enforce it if you can't even guarantee that leash/confinement laws are enforced? Enforcement is enforcement...if you can't enforce one law, you won't be able to enforce another.

"I don’t know how else to explain it, but fewer unwanted dogs and cats equals less animals to be abused. The equation seems simple enough."

But you have not proven...no one has...that forced neutering will reduce those numbers OR that they can be enforced in the face of the FACT that in too many places the leash laws and animal cruelty laws ALREADY in place can't be enforced either. More unenforced laws won't solve anything.

"The less unwanted animals the more room there is for those who are born and still wind up unwanted at no kill shelters and rescue organizations."

And where will those new animals be coming from? If forced neutering is put in place AND enforced, I thought that was supposed to solve the problem of unwanted animals?

"I’m fully aware that no amount of lesgislation and education will stop all animal abuse, but that’s no excuse not to keep trying. "

Trying is fine, but trying unproven and untenable "solutions" won't solve anything and the same problems will still exist.

If you want to do something that will HELP, start with getting leash and confinement laws in place AND enforced. With the emphasis, as in this entire message, on ENFORCED. When THOSE laws are enforced...as they are in MY county...then stand back and see if any difference is made. If not, THEN maybe it's time to go to the next step. Forced neutering is the NEXT step, not the first one.

Michael
I was having a go at you with the remark. I do know that
having a male dog neutered can be an issue for a lot of men.
They cringe at the thought. (Sorry)

I understand that you are really upset with government telling you what you can’t or cannot do with your dog.

From what I have read since this exchange began the law was put into effect to stop irresponsible pet owners and backyard breeders but I truly don’t see how it could possibly be enforced.

And as much as I agree with animals being spayed and neutered in reality I think there is going to be a lot of problems trying to do the enforcement.

There are laws about wearing seatbelts and not talking on your cell phone while driving and I hardly if ever see those laws enforced. Are the police and dog control agents going to be running around fining and arresting hundreds of people who aren’t or won’t comply and then will they build jail to put them in?

Responsible pet owners are being penalized because of all the people out there who aren’t doing the right thing. They are the ones how need to be governed but how do you separate them from people who don’t deserve to be involved in this mess?

The AKC site has a lot of information concerning this new law. It said on the site that the ordinance will go into effect June 3rd. As I said before why not just have the guys neutered and get done with?

Hey everybody,

I thank you all for the good natured debate. I debated "Uncle Matty" Margolis on this issue, and I hope to debate Cesar or anyone else who wants to talk about it. I'm not getting upset, and I hope none of you are not getting upset either.

Speaking your mind should be liberating.

Lots of people want to stifle debate. Notice I'm not trying to stifle either debate or those who want to stifle it. They have every right to their opinion that I'm a bad dog in the pack, or that I'm a troublemaker.

I'm not going to stick around here forever, so don't worry, but I think all in all this has been a good thing.

KathyB
I agree and I hope you don’t think I haven’t posted many times before about my admiration for Cesar and his work. I watch all of his shows and have them on my DVR too. I’m also a very strong advocate for him on a pet board where he was constantly being slammed.
Aside for that I don’t mind a good debate but if it’s against the rules of the board I will stop

Michael
I just want to say you either didn’t read or comprehend my last post I said I understand your frustration. Neutering is not torture and if you feel that your rights have been taken away then I hope you trying to do something about it aside from posting in here.

Hi Tasha!
I am by no means saying it is not allowed to have a debate here or that any of you should stop if you feel it is a healthy, relaxed debate and everyone is enjoying themselves having the conversation....my post was directed to anyone who is having a problem or is struggling with another's opinion....that the best way to make is stop is to not reply.
I personally have not read the entire "debate" going on, but have seen a few remarks about some being frustrated or some that seemed borderline rude in how they seemed to reply to each other is all.
I think a good discussion is healthy and a person such as myself can learn alot from a good conversation!!! So if you are okay and everyone is just having a healthy conversation I think thats awesome!!!!....I also think that sometimes we (myself included) need to be very careful on how we convey our thoughts as sometimes words look a lot different than they sound in our head.lololol
Have fun and as long as everyone is happy and things are friendly I think it's fine in my opinion! :) KathyB

Ewa,

I think what you can try first is take your dog first for a long walk and then try to introduce the vacuum your dog with the help of someone. Keep the vacuum at a distance first. Like 25 feet apart from your dog first. Keep your dog on leash next to you and every time when he shows fear break him out of that state of mind by making him concentrate on you and forget about the sound. Use the technique of tapping the dog like Cesar. Once he is more comfortable with a certain level of distance gradually brings the vacuum closer until the fear has totally been extinguished. This is not something that can be done in a day or two. It will need hard work and patience. Do a little bit of this exercise each day and everyday you will try to bring the vacuum closer. This is actually a combination of Cesar and Jean Donaldson technique after reading her book "The Culture Clash." Let me know if this works. Good luck.

Anyone who is in the NYC area on May 23rd, it has been confirmed that Cesar will be in Borders at Columbus Circle at 1:00pm to introduce his first dvd set of the first season. Can't wait to speak to him again.

You know I find it disapointing ppl fight over the pp works/doesn't work or other methods work/don't work.

PP works..its not just for tricks. (trust me..I rehabilitate JRTs that were due to be uethed by shelters and owners, as well as win in obedience and agility, and have 6 JRT that are intact live in my house with my son and my cat) But other methods work too.

I have a very agressive/reactive JRT..she can now do the sit and down stays with strange dogs. (and got 2nd place with 193 and 194.5 in both her classes) This was done in a PP way. Does that mean another method wouldn't also have worked? No. I chose not to use any method of force with my dogs. This is my choice, but don't tell me it doesn't work. It only makes you look narrow minded, as I have seen it work.

There are many bad PP trainers out there (and many bad traditional trainers too) so don't bash the method because a some are not skilled at it.

Keep an open mind..and remember we all love our dogs, how ever we train them.

PP=pure positive

Hi everyone,
my 2 cents: i think it's good to get different points of view, but I soon found myself not enjoying this discussion after awhile between Michael & others. Also i do use Cesar's methods on my 2 dogs & they realy work!Also before my current 2 dogs(age 5 & 17mo) except my beloved dog "sugar" who delveloped mammory glad cancer at age 11, we never neutered/spayed our dogs, we just didn't think of it, over the last 25yrs, we've had several litters, but we found homes for all of them, the last litter were small dogs that everyone wanted & paid $50.apeice for, but since the vet said that unspayed dogs tend to get tumors/cancer, we've decied to neuter/spay every future dog.I'm glad our current dogs are fixed.In the past though, we wished we could have had a puppy from one of our dogs for us to keep. I wish we could have bred our rottie-he's such a great dog! smart, loving, loves people, obedient, he's 5, but the thought that someday he may die before me--it breaks my heart.Tell you a secret...(somthing i wouldn't mention anywhere but here)I grieve more over the loss of my last 2 dogs than i did over members in my family.I love my dogs enough to be their pack leader so i CAN take them out everyday-without fear, be able to pass other dogs without them lunging/going ballistic-because thoes are the kinds of behaviors that keep people from taking out their dogs & the dogs suffer. I do thease things for THEM- out of my love for them. I even withhold my love at times FOR THEM. I don't feel like going out everyday, it takes away from some things I enjoy-like going to the gym, cleaning the house better,spending more time with my husband befor i go to work etc. I do it for them.

Brent,

"Dogs are much less prone to bruising than we are. Having raised extremely rowdy American Bulldogs I cannot remember ever seeing a bruise on any of my dogs"

I am by NO MEANS saying this is what happened to the dog around which the lawsuit revolves...but my experience of running Sighthounds has taught me that one BIG thing that can cause severe bruising in the inner thigh area is a "dropped muscle" - where the gracilis muscle detaches, or partially detches from the bone.

I agree it's not at all common for dogs to have server bruising, but it CAN occur.

since the dog featured in the lawsuit was hurt, obviously, someone made a mistake. a serious mistake. although i don't agree that every mistake has to be addressed in court, i don't blame the dog owner for wanting redress. what makes all of you think this is a frivolous suit? a dog has been hurt.

i wasn't aware that cesar would be away for a year. perhaps his staff, no matter how well trained, shouldn't be taking in dogs with problems when cesar isn't there. it's clearly evident cesar knows what he's doing and that he is in charge and humane. the other staffers on their own w/o cesar? who knows if they all have cesar's gift?

no one has mentioned the lawsuit being brought by the person who claims to have mentored cesar for tv. now, there's a suit that i would more likely see as one that came out of cesar's increased fame. any one want to comment on it?

Maybe it is a mistake to use a choke chain with a dog on a treadmill. It is general advice that one should never use a choke chain when the situation could get out of control and it could not be rapidly released. For instance I would never use one on a long line that might get hung up on something, or on a dog running in the woods.

Maybe the dog has a point. Rip up all your carpets and just sweep!

If Cesar's going to be away for a year, are we still going to see new episode of The Dog Whisperer ??

Good question about Cesar being gone. I wonder how many new episodes are in the vault for his absence?
This week there will no new show..hope that isn't it til next season.

The new ones that have been showing were taped late last year and early this year, so hopefully there are more new ones to come.

Surely, they don't get low on ideas...I know they must be inudated with requests.

Having had dogs all my years of life, until Mr. Millan showed up and explained to us about being a "pack leader", etc, I "trained" my dogs the "old" way. I have done clicker training and still do at times, it's very effective. A couple of things I did learn from Mr. Millan and being a pack leader is that I can safely guide my pack to a positive behavior, which I've done. We have 2 Rotties and a Mastiff, they know how to sit and behave while we put their leashes on to go for a walk. We are the first to go out the door and come in the door with the dogs following us, the humans. Because I know my dogs so well, I am able to practice some of what Mr. Millan teaches us and it's working perfectly.
Thank you again Mr. Millan for letting us see our dogs in a whole new perspective. I can't praise you enough for what you have learned on your own and how you share this with others.

Doggone/GA,

You're right, I saw several cities on a schedule somewhere, inviting dog owners all over the country in maybe 6 or 8 cities to submit tapes of their problem dogs. There's also a schedule on Cesar's site of booksignings all over the place and also launching the DVD set. I think it's great that people besides southern Californians will benefit.

Does anyone know when the next batch of Illusion collars will be available? I'm tired of kicking myself for procrastinating the first time around!

"Doggone, thanks for clarifying — that is excellent that he’s going to other cities to help other dogs! I’m so excited to know he’ll be helping so many"

I know, I've been racking my brain for some excuse to have him come to MY place, but I just don't have any problems that would warrant filming around. I know that sounds conceited, but I don't mean it that way! I know my dogs have some habits that other people might not like...but since they don't bother ME and I'm pretty happy on the whole with how my dogs relate to me, I just can't justify trying to get Cesar to work with them.

Espcially when there really ARE *so* many other dogs with much worse problems...whose PEOPLE need his help more!

Hey Deb,

I was looking for some other blogs but I couldn't seem to find any good ones. The ones I found had 0 comments LAME! So thanks a lot! :D

~Chantel

I have read these blogs for quite some time now but have never posted. With all that is going on for Cesar right now I feel the need to voice my support. Thank you to NGC for continuing to support Cesar and the wonderful work he is doing. And thank you to Cesar's fans who have posted here, who have contacted him and who have, and continue to, speak up for him.

I've studied dogs and training methods for 12 years. When I came across Cesar's show this year I found the missing piece of the puzzle. For this my family (human and canine) say a heartfelt "thanks/megwetch."

We continue as a work in progress. My Shar-pei can still be a handful at times but we are getting there. I can walk both dogs together now, no tugging/lunging etc. Three years of chronic tendonitis--finished. And most importantly, my relationships with my dogs have improved 100%. I "get" what their needs are now and I make sure to deliver. In turn, I get balanced happy dogs who are great members of our family.

Cesar, because of your show and what I've learned I have become a better dog owner and a stronger more capable human being. As I walked along the other night, dogs at my side watching a beautiful prairie sunset I thought how amazing it is that you have affected our lives--people you've never met in person and live so far away from you--in such a profound way.

I know your passion is dogs and your dream is a world full of owners who lead their "packs" with calm assertive energy and who live by "exercise, discipline then affection." From Eren in Canada, thank you for sharing that dream. I'm sure if they could my dogs would thank you too.

Walk strong, Kola (friend).

Come on people! Why bother with Michael?! The more you respond to his posts...the more hes Gonna post!Now, back to Cesar. I just love him and his ways. Im behind him all the way. 100%.
Evie? I think it was you with the dog thats afraid of other people. I have a 15 months old lab mix and shes the same way. I took her to the vet for her rabie shot and there was this new vet there. He came in and wanted to touch her right away. She growled then tried to bite him cause she was so afraid. I told him to go get a muzzle. This is the first time that i have ever seen her like that. The worse thing a vet can do........or anyone can do....is to show the dog that their afraid of them. Layney won that battle. Shes a diamond in the ruff though lol.

Hi Dave,
First let me say I'm sorry for the loss of your beloved Wolfgang.
It's great to hear that you are training your own service dog!
I also work with service dogs and my project right now is to modify a dog for a quad. We are working on food preparation and one of her dog's tasks is to "pick it up". She dropped her frozen dinner trying to get it into the microwave and the dog was able to pick it up without breaking the thin plastic covering the food. He put it right in her lap.
For lunch today she will try to fix hot dogs. (What a switch, her fixing lunch for me!) This will be a true test of the dog's food resistance training!LOL
Good Luck with your new dog!

Kerry,

I am curious about the pure positive method. I took one class with a pp instructor that was pathetic (but as you say, I'm sure there are bad instructors for EVERY method!) In this supposedly advanced class, people were basicly begging their dogs to do things like sit or stay, while the distracted excitable dogs did whatever they wanted to do. The instructor would say, "Oh, he'll do it (sit) when he is ready."

I am a fan of Cesar, and have used what I've learned from his shows successfully with my two dogs, but I'm curious about all methods. I know there must be something more to this PP training than what I saw in this class! Can you enlighten me at all as to how you train a dog who is not interested in the treat, and how you get a consistent response? For instance, what about two dogs who want to fight and are not in the mood to pause for a snack?

Penny,

It's my understanding that Cesar isn't going away as in a "sabatical", but rather traveling to promote his book, DVD set, and doing seminars and apperances thru out the country.
And since they're putting out calls in different areas for show ideas, I would guess there will be new shows to come along this season. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

I sure agree with you, this has been blown out of porportion, probably due to his national success. He's the first dog behaviorist to get such national attention and have his own widley watched TV show. I'm wondering how many dog behaviorists or trainers have had their books reach #1 on Amazon? Seems to me there's probably quite a bit of jealousy out there in the world of dog behaviorists and trainers.
I wonder if it's just a coincidence that the law suits followed on the heels of his book being released?

It'll be interesting to see if there are any new shows in the coming weeks.

KathyB,

The boards I mentioned are just a good resources and place for hot topics to be discussed in an open public forum.

I have no particular preference or investment in the two I mentioned. But there are so many boards out there, these are the two I have found most informative.

This blog is the best place for those who support Cesar, his show, and his teachings, and is also my favorite site on the net.

By the way, how are the walks going?

Deb

THANK YOU MODERATOR!

CESAR, YOU ARE OUR HERO! KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK TO HELP DOGS AND TO HELP US BECOME BETTER DOG OWNERS. I know that I'll support you any way I can...I just pre-ordered the NGC first season of Dog Whisperer on dvd for myself and will probably purchase other sets during the year to give as gifts!

Debbie RBW,
I have been a VERY bad Mom!!!!
My life has been so completely hectic, that the poor guy has not been on a walk in about a week.....ugh, I know....I feel terrible that I have not given him the most important thing he needs!!!!
I am hoping to start back up today, if the weather co-operates! Thank you so much for asking!!!
I got my entite back yard sodded, so now he has a wonderful yard full of beautiful green grass instead of one huge fenced in dirt yard!lol

Thanks from me as well, Moderator! I read this to enjoy comments from fellow fans...not to hear arguments about local dog legislation, etc.

I am totally hooked on Cesar's program on NGC -- thanks to them as well! I watch it EVERY time I get a chance and have tried a few of the techniques on my dogs. I am totally fascinated with Cesar's "gift" and would love to know if he has always been able to deal with dogs this way or learned it over his lifetime. Does he plan to write a biography?

Please keep doing what you are doing!!!! I LOVE it!!!

To those of you who have issues with strange people trying to pet your dogs, do what Cesar said to do - Make a "Back Banner" for you dog to wear and have the words:

"IN TRAINING"
(no petting allowed)

embroidered on it. Your could even have a T-shirt made to say those exact words on both front and back for you to wear when attending functions that will have large crowds.

Cesar's fan,

Thank you very much. I realize that facing the fear it's the only way, I don't know what I was hoping for, a magic trick? I think for now it's a good excuse not to vacuum so often, LOL.

Hey KathyB,

I used to have a green yard too. A few years ago. Let me know how long the sod will stay green and alive. I was thinking about resoding the backyard, but figured it's wasted money. With one dog it wasn't too bad, but when the second one came, not much green was left. Now with three...
I actually planted some grass seeds this spring, and already see the path in the new grown grass. Maybe the grass in between the paths will stay green.

Thanks, GinnyC for that reminder, my own little service dog in training has a vest that he wears stating that he is a service dog in training and I have even made a T-Shirt that says "Yes, my pup is cute, but he is in training, PLEASE DO NOT PET" and most people respect that, but there are a few that think that if a dog is in public they have the right to reach out and pet it no matter what.

If someone approaches your dog (and you do not always have time to stop them) try to step between the person and the dog as a barrier so you can explain that your dog is in training. Some people just don't know that they can't reach out to every animal they see, especially children.

If your dog has a bad experience and gets a fright when out and about try to end the day on a good note by having someone the dog knows be the last one to approach him or her before re-entering the home.

I am trying to get my local news to do a series of dog safety stories during National Bite Prevention Week (May 21-27th) because many out there do not know the safe way to approach dogs or how to handle situations where a bite might occur.

I must say I really enjoy returning to positive, calm (for the most part) places like this. The whole issue is making my head hurt and a recent discussion I had elswhere has really tuned me off to dog training at the moment. Usually I love reading everything I, deciding what works for me and my dog, what might work for other people I know and what I wouldn't recommend until all else has failed. It's just a hobby but I was enjoying it. At least until I stumbled across what is apparently a niche of dog trainers with a misinformed view.

I wish somebody would take on the garbage going on over at the Bark magazine's blog. I'm worn out. Can't seem to get them to understand that they're a rather public forum backed by a rather public business and that most of what the writers, commentors and book reviewers have said is reflecting as that particular entity's "stance/endorsement" on the issue and that presenting only their one-sided opinons is a bad idea.
All I intended to do was warn a certain few over there that there are alot of people in the world who take others' word for things without making their own informed decisions. It's all gotten out-of-control and people are just going to hear what they want to hear whether it's what was said or not.

I agree with the many post here about keeping things lighthearted and stopping addressing an issue if it begins to make one feel any less than such.

I'm also pleased to see there is still a place of many supporters to seek solace. You all keep doing what you're doing, what you've looked into and decided works for you and your dogs. And thanks for being so open to new ideas, willing to try different methods and receptive to differen concepts and messages.

Hey Doggone, thanks for answering. My dogs actually get along great, don't fight at all. I was just posing a situation in which it seemed hard to imagine using purely positive feedback. A fight is the last place I can think of where a dog would be likely to be distracted by food or toys.

Ewa,
I feel as u do. I've always obsessed about taking the dogs out, even before Cesar, even when my family said,"they're fine without a walk" before Cesar, i had a true fear of loose dogs, now we go.Today though...i really feel bad with a sinus infection, so i waited too long to go out, now it's hot(90's)so my husband said he will come out with me this evening.But i'll be on edge till that happens,because he isn't 100% reliable, they keep looking at me then the gate..waiting,it's almost too much for me to take, hard to relax & do housework.But i just have to wait-in the morning i'm leaving early, so no you're not alone, i thought i was.

Sorry about another post so soon, but last october my dog ran into me ,knocked me off my feet & i brock my wrist landing, i was in alot of pain, but the next morning, before i went to the Dr. i took them out. i've got to relax!! I'm hoping our local dog parks are open now, after all the rain, maby we can to there today.

Too bad that jealousy is such an issue with people. As we know Ceasar would NEVER harm an animal, perhaps it is because it is a way that people will go to any length for the almightly $. Unfortunately we live in a day and age when people sue at the drop of a hat, this will no doubt turn out to be B/S.

Right On Ceasar, the truth will come out.

Peace,
Joanie P

KCC,

I too checked out the blog that you referred to -- sheesh! Some people just have their minds made up and there's no changing them.

I think that you should give yourself a break and enjoy your puppy(ies). I recognized your writing style in your comments and feel that you did an admirable job, above and beyond the call of duty. Now it's time to relax and enjoy the benefits of the research that you've done. Your dog(s) love you and that's more than some people can say -- enjoy it!

Mike,

Not being able to actually see what goes on in your home, it's hard to give exact advice.
But, I would ask if you are taking your dogs on daily walks and have "mastered" the walk in the way Cesar recommends? That's usually the place Cesar begins, not always, but usually. However, Cesar always says we are to walk our dogs, properly and daily. A tired dog is a good dog. It's the best place to begin in becoming the pack leader. Use a short leash, never let the dogs walk out in front of you and never let them leave the house first. If they walk out the door first, they are taking you for the walk.

After that, I'd recommend you get Cesar's book, "Cesar's Way" and his DVD, "People Training for Dogs".

Good luck.

Ewa and Bootsmutt! ME TOOOOO!!! I am the only person in my neighborhood who walks my dogs on leash -- well, no there are two others but they take their dogs for a less than 5 minute walk. I take mine for 45 minutes, twice a day on most days. Ewa: rain, shine, thunder, mud, snow, ice, hot, cold, sick, well, no matter what -- just like you said! And because they had pulled me down on several walks I had fractures and lots of residual pain, but no matter what, I'm out there on that walk! Every once in a while, I'll take a "day off" and it's so funny but I swear they pick up on my energy and "know" instinctually that they're not going for a walk, so they don't bug me. But most days, it's bug bug bug ha ha. We had our fence put up in the back yard this week FINALLY! They just don't "get it"! They keep coming to the basement door and barking to be let back in! UGH!!! I have to keep going outside first, which is good because it reinforces pack leader, but it's so silly. I guess I've trained them too well not to be outside loose. Who would've thought?!
We had their annual checkup at the vet today, and so I took the morning off from work. But my appointment was at about the same time as I'd usually go to work. I went through the exact same routine I always do. Took the dogs for a walk, showered, read my email, ate breakfast bla bla bla... but when I started to get dressed and put my shoes on and brush my teeth, they started going NUTS. HOW did they know that I was taking them somewhere and not going to work?! It has something to do with the energy like Cesar talks about, but I can't see that I'm doing anything different except "thinking about" going to the vet instead of work. How weird! I think I am communicating telepathically !

Today, a very good friend had to euthanize her 13 y/o Collie because he was dying of liver cancer. So sad, we were both crying. She is a fan of DW too and said now she has no more reason to watch it. I was online looking for this great poem someone gave me when my black Lab passed away (it's called "If A Dog Were Your Teacher" -- if you have never seen it, search for it online, it is such a wonderful poem). So I wanted to email her this poem, and I thought I had saved it in my documents on my computer. So I was hunting around, and I didn't find it, but I found the most hilarious thing I thought I'd share and give everyone a good laugh... when my Lab/Shepherd was a little puppy, before we got my Lab/Coonhound, and after my Black Lab died, I had gone away on a trip and I typed up a list of instructions for whomever was dog-sitting at the time. I found that list today. It included things such as "Whenever he comes in from outside, put food in his bowl" or how 'bout this one: "he will "ask" for more food by barking" ha ha ha!! That one had me in stitches! The first one was "Do not EVER let Hobie off the leash. The pond is not frozen, so it's unsafe, and he doesn't understand that cars can hurt him." !!!!

I don't know if anyone here has read "Marley & Me" but in the book they leave a list of instructions with a dog-sitting friend, and when I read that in the book, I thought of my lists that I've written for my pets. Only I didn't realize I had kept one!! Oh boy, was it funny!

It was a real eye opener to see just how much HE was pack leader, and I was not! And that went on for 6 years, until I found DW!!!!

I'm so excited about this Friday's show! I just saw the preview for this season and it looks like we will get to see Cesar working with puppies. :)

Let me just say "I'm home!". I love ya'll! Don't ever change :D :D :D

what can we do to help Cesar? He is a good person, and I want to write a letter in his defense, but I dont know where to send. I hope that this will not stop him from having a show. It seems that National Geographic is on his side, so that is good.

K2,

What a great poem! I LOVED "Marley and Me", the things we do for our puppies! I seriously wished that DW had been available to them, but I so admired their commitment to that goofy dog, and how they acknowledged all that he brought to them. He has a really nice website with lots of pictures and a blog.

Michelle, where did you see a promo for a new show? I re-checked my Tivo guide and it has all reruns listed for the next two weeks. If there's a new one, esp. with puppies, I must know! Guess I'll record anyway since we always find something new watching the reruns!

SJS,

I wish I could help you, but I don't know how. I am sure someone will give you a good advice.

I actually need an advice also. I usually walk my husky mix on the leash to the car in the driveway, because she is unpredictable. Today I let her and my pit bull mix run off leash to the car, where I opened the door first, hoping that they will jump in. Well, there was a young man walking on the road, and Ruffy (husky mix) charged at him, barking, even nipping at his pants. I chased her away, to the car and closed the doors. I went and apologized to the man, who was nice enough to say that it was no problem, and not to worry about it. I was so mad with myself for being so stupid, and letting Ruffy off the leash. The dogs waited a few minutes in the car for me to get ready, and then off we went to the park.
I didn't correct Ruffy and didn't do anything about the whole incident, because I just didn't know what to do. I feel like I lost good opportunity to teach her a lesson, but what should I have done?

Hi Ewa,

I had kinda the same problem, where my Belgian shep was barking and charging at people in the woods when we would come upon another hiker. It's pretty hard to be correcting your dog when you're busy abjectly apologizing to the terrified victim! Anyway it's pretty hard to get the point across after the fact.

I made some set-ups where I had friends and family (in dress-up so Loki wouldn't recognize them - helmets, masks, robes) appear in the woods when she was on a long line. When she charged out toward them, she got a good hard correction on her collar, and then I praised her when she came trotting back to me.

It seems to have worked so far! She now knows rushing at people in the woods is not gonna fly and she is much more mellow.

PS I never use a choke chain with a long line!

Sad, isn't it, what people will do for a buck? Cesar is doing wonderful things for canines everywhere and some poor mooch is trying to make a buck by suing him.
I don't know what happened to this dog, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that it was in anyway negligence on Cesars part.

Sorry Cesar, America is sue happy, some people just don't want to work for their money anymore. Keep doing your wonderful work! You have millions of us behind you! After all you are a great pack leader!

KCC,

I feel need to confront these people. The blog on that well known magazine's site is there for all to see. It's very clear who is bashing Cesar. Thanks to the internet, these folks can no longer hide in the shadows and launch their assaults against any trainer, owner, or canine professional who does not believe in and use their methods.

There was a book "review", (and I use this term loosely), of "Cesar's Way" in this magazine by a Positive Method author who was part of a Cesar must be stopped writing campaign which was circulated amoung these "professionals" a year ago to stop Cesar from his first guest appearance on Oprah.

I have not been to this particular site. The quote posted here, says it all. I am just so worn out and saddened by the behavior of these people who preach so "Positive", yet behave so "Negative". Heck of a sorry way to find the "Balance". IMO

Deb

hi everyone,
yesterday morning i wasn't feeling well enough to take my dogs out(sinus)so last nite me & my husband took them out on our "longer" walk, then we took out our younger dog Shirley (17mo) on the bike, she trots next to the bike with my hubby, she is usually very well behaved toward other dogs with him, but the was a large dog being walked next to her on the sidwalk, she lunged at the dog a little, got her hind foot caught in the bike-but it released right away, today she's not walking on it. She still has an appitite and walks on 3legs, but i can't take her out till it's all healed.I gave her an aspirin, it just seems to be sprained. 2wks ago, she got a cut on her R foot pad, 2mo ago, her tail seemed like it was broken, but it turned out that it got out of joint and after some strong tape on it, it "snapped" back & was fine.I don't want to take my other dog out & not take her, so I think i have to skip the walk for today. She seems very accident prone.The worst thing is I'm very paranoid to anything happening to either of them, because last yr. our beloved dog Barney woke up with labored breathing,we rushed him to E.R, found out he was in anaphylactic shock from a severe allergic reaction to "something" during the nite, so we lost him, still paying the vet bills too. So everytime any little thing seems wrong, I freak out. I'm sure she'll be fine. thanks for your support

bootsmut,

I am so sorry about Barney. Awful thing.

With your other dog you have to try Rescue Remedy. About 2 months ago one of my dogs was limping. We let her rest (since I have three dogs, I only took one at a time for a walk with me, so she was never left alone), she's got Rimadyl from the vet, and after 7 weeks there was no improvement at all. Worse, she started walking on three paws. My friend, who works with horses suggested RR. It helped in less than 2 days! Now I swear by it. I recommend it to everybody who has dogs (or horses, or any other animal).
Also with your injury proned dog maybe you can get some pet insurance, if you don't have one yet. I just did it for my dogs, it costs me $60 a month for all three, and it gives me some peace of mind.
My husky mix is my only dog that I can ride a bike with. She is so good on the leash, I can hold the leash in one hand and she trotts next to me.

Here is a frivolous question. Does anyone know how to teach a dog to catch a frisbee? Loki will fetch sticks, balls, and even frisbees, but only after they hit the ground. She'll snatch it up in motion if I roll it on the ground, but if I throw it she just waits for it to hit earth.

I think it's so cool to see those frisbee catching pups, and a wonderful challenge for the dogs.

In a more serious vein, Cesar will not be brought down by his detractors, because what he does WORKS!! And we can all see it with our own bare eyes. Anyone who sees violence or cruelty there is deluding himself.

Chantel,

I just looked at the "Barf" website and read some of the stuff on there. Very unprofessional. If I had a difference of opinion with another trainer I would try not to stoop to the levels of ad hominem attacks I saw there. Really awful. I don't think Cesar's methods are cruel and yet that is how he is portrayed over there. Simple case of jealousy if you ask me. My dogs are doing quite well with their calm, assertive pack leader. They are happy and so am I. Stay here in the positive (for the most part) cesar blog!

We had VPI (Veterinary Pet Insurance) with our dog, Sammy before he died. Google the site. We paid about $20 dollars a month and always got some $ back on meds and vet visits/procedures. It's not a lot, but with vet bills the way they are, every bit helps!! It even covered some of his expenses when we had to put him down. :( (They sent us a sympathy card, too.) Their customer service is excellent.

my mistake, i'm referring to post #262

_michael,

like cesarisawesome said, we live in a free country with free opinions. If you want to try to get it deleted, go ahead, but even if you could. They should be able to say whatever they want like we do. People don't have to go to that web site, and even though they are incredibly rude, ignorent ect., ect. they are not voilating any law.

~Chantel

Just Concerned,

The only reason to "sue", imo, is if the Dog Psychology Center offered not to pay the bills or refused to do so upon request. You can be almost totally certain, if not for Cesar's celebrity status, no lawyer probably would have even taken the suit.
A family member of mine was severly injured at a well known local large chain of grocery stores. The injuries were totally the stores fault, yet no lawyer would even look at the case, even though the store refused to pay the medical bills. It's not as easy as you would think to get these cases in the court system. I have no doubt if not for Cesar's fame no lawyer would have touched this either.
If you want to read about this incident from the person who was in charge of this dog when this happened, then go back to the Feb. archives and read what he has to say under "Response from JonBee's Owners", entry by, "LA Trainer".
It sounds like the owners weren't satisfied with bills being paid for...some lawyer, with the owners backing, saw a cash cow, I would venture to guess.
Even still, dogs are viewed as property in Califora, and I highly doubt these people will get anything more than their bills paid and a nominal amount for the value of the dog, especially since the dog did not die, thankfully.
This is the real world and sadly in the real world accidents happen.

Dave,

I know! They acctually think that Cesar is CRUEL! I was reading some of the things they said about Cesar. It was like they were talking about a criminal or something. They honestly think that Cesar uses the "old ways" of beating dogs into subbmision. WHOA, they are way off. Sure, Cesar uses dominance but not physical pain, anger, or yelling, just energy and firmness.

I think some trainers on that are angry that a "dominance trainer" is on TV. Many people judged and "altered" what they saw on Cesar's show, instantly putting the dominance=negitive sticker on Cesar's forehead. I feel bad for them. They seriously think that love and affection and treats will help the dog when they have a problem. In the animal world things don't work quite like that. I must say that positive methods are good when associating things to the dog. You want a good impression on the dog, but constant rewards can get old. You don't want to spoil your dog. There has to be structure, balance, and a strong pack leader for your dog to be happy, and affection AFTER they are done with excercise and discipline. I hope people understand that Cesar does NOT use the old way of "beat them into subbmision", but he does use dominance, which is the only way to have perfect control of your dog.

~Chantel

I'm an administator of my company's web site. As such, if people post anything in the slightest way derogatory about our company, or about ANYONE or any of our competitors on our bulletin board page, I delete it (after printing it to keep on file). I would hope that somebody is monitoring that magazine's web site and doing the same!!

Katie3 -- see the new blog from today -- there will be repeats for a few weeks, and then on to new episodes! Yay!

Bootsmutt, in my experience, dogs recover really quickly from sprains and strains. I admire you for doing the bicycle thing -- I just KNOW my dogs would lunge if I tried to ride the bike with one of them alongside. Kudos to you! I won't even try it!! (And my other favorite exercise IS riding my bike.) I've seen Cesar do similar things like skateboards and rollerblades. no thanks! I'm having enough trouble walking them ha ha ha When my black Lab had arthritis, one of my horse friends gave me glucosamine powder. It added at least 2 or 3 years to her ability to walk and run! Amazing stuff! You can get it where horse supplies are sold, or at the health food store.

Can you believe this everybody? Not only did I have one friend who had to euthanize her sick dog yesterday, but another friend's dog died yesterday morning too. How weird! Both were 13 years old. We've all been crying for two days. The second friend had just finished "Marley and Me" which I had given to him to read. I think it prepared him, in a way, for his dog's passing.

And I'll end on a funny note: my boyfriend has been away for two months -- he travels a lot -- and while he is away I Fedex him books to read. I sent him "Cesar's Way" when it came out. Well, tonight when he left the office, I asked him "Are you OK with going home and dealing with the dogs by yourself?" (I had to work late). He replied, "Of course, what do you think? I am their PACK LEADER!"

I agree with Sarah's response to Just Concerned:

It's been previously noted that, not only do suits happen well after the original incidend, the also happen either after a refusal by one party to make restutition or because the injured party doesn't feel whatever attempts at restution were made were enough.

Certainly all of us here feel for the poor dog at the root of it but we've established that already.

My personal feelings based on what we've been allowed to know and what we don't yet know are there must be some kind of technicality or something going on that resulted in the suit even being filed.
I'm sure that such a major business has taken the usual and proper precautions, acquired all the proper legal protection, and liability measures, not to mention waivers release forms, etc...
How are we to know whether this is a case where maybe an insurance company declined to pay medical bills (because maybe something went on during the instance or soon aferward that muddied the issue or tainted it in some way) or only paid part of them and the person doing the suing decided that wasn't enough?

It's also possible there's an presently undisclosed issue with the yet to be named staff member(s) involved and that's why we haven't been privy to any more information than any of us have or that's why things are stalling and suits have been filed.

I don't know everything but I have experience of 14 years as a professional in the health and fitness field and I do not have enough fingers and toes to list the number of HUMANS I've seen fall off of treadmills.
And aren't we supposedly the higer species?

I don't know how much common sense the individual in question may or may not have, but I suspect that for a person to decide (if this is indeed the case) to fasten an animal to a treadmill in such a manner that it would not be able to free itself if need be, then surely such common sense must have been impaired in some way to begin with. It's quite possible the person in question wasn't physically, emotionally or otherwise quite all there when such desicions were made, if in fact that is the case. I mean, if you wouldn't tie yourself to a treadmill, why would you do so to an animal? And then leave it unsupervised. Really, somebody must not have been in posession of all of their wits at the time.

As for choke collars, we've already established that the business works with whatever collars and leads are provided by a dog's people.
Quite possibly, if the practice were to remove whatever collar the dog came in with and use one of the facility's own, somebody would still be suing, either for the few-dollar cost of a lost choke collar or in protest to the
(hypothetical) one used.

I feel (as some others have also expressed)that, from the description of the injuries, something "more" or something "else" also happened.
If the dog was, indeed, fastened to the treadmill with no way to escape, and did, for whatever reason, (tiring, or maybe an unknown condition that might result in sudden collapse) was unable to continue supporting itself and was unsupervised, and did sustain injuries resulting from all of that and if the dog's owner is being entirely straightforward, then I'm sure it will all be sorted out.

And that's alot of "ifs" and speculations.
I really think that those of us who are chosing to side with Cesar and the DPC on this are doing so because we feel that what we've seen, heard and read of his character have been enough for us to comfortably say we believe he's probably already done whatever is/was required of him- and maybe above and beyond that.

I have a suggestion, though, and that is, most treadmills these days have a magnetic safety feature. If the magnet is disconnected from the treadmill (say because a user tripped, stumbled, or fell off), the treadmill stops. Fitness facilities encourage the use of this feature (it clips onto your clothing) especially with people who are inexperienced treadmill users. If the treadmill in question has such a feature, it might be wise to attatch it to the dog somehow, or to make a way for the magnet to detatch in the event of an accident in order to prevent such happenings in the future.

I'll also say I'm happy that dogs have no interest in watching t.v. while they walk. Plenty of the people I've seen fall off treadmills did so because they confused the channel or volume controls with the speed control features. They thought they were changing channels or turning up the volume (the treadmills I'm speaking of each had their own personal t.v. installed in them) and were really ramping up the mph instead. It was a disaster.

Cesarisawesome-
I also agree with free speech, but when I post my piece in a calm, informed manner, giving a decent amount of common courtesy and human decency to the people I'm disagreeing with, I foolishly expect to be treated in kind.
It's sad how some parts of the internet are just junior high school all over again. People hearing what they want to hear, whether that's what was said or not, and taking great joy in the pain of others. I understand a certain niche of dog trainers "not liking" Cesar and shuddering at the idea that he is one of their peers, and not wanting to be associated with him and his work by being a dog trainer but, my post was a pitiful attempt to get them to see that aren't they making themselves and the profession as a whole look just as bad by behaving in such a vindictive manner about it? Especially since, to a large extent some of the people involved are employed by or contrubutors for a well-circulated publication whose official stance on the issue we might not know and some unwitting person browsing by might misconstrue as that publications endorsement on the subject?

Thanks for responding Evie.
I don't have a crate for him. I guess a visit to the Vet is in order 'cause I don't know what else to do.
My dogs actually have their own room which is gated off from the rest of the house.

Hey Ewa,
I forgot to say thanks for telling me about the dogs preferring to be with the humans! That's precisely what's been happening. So, I didn't over-train them ha ha... they just want to be with pack leader!

This is a note of thanks to NGO for backing Cesar. The Dog Whisperer is an AMAZING show, as much for people as for creatures. I've learned so much about myself and how to safely handle my nippy 11 year old Australian cattle dog. And I'm not alone! It's astonishing how many people who walk their dogs along Derby Wharf here in Salem, MA, refer to The Dog Whisperer in light conversation. It's making a tremendous impact. I'm so glad it's an hour long show.

Sarah,

Thanks! I love coming on here were I can express my love for dogs and things concerned with them. It's fun to share ideas with people who understand me, who are crazy about dogs also.

I am really excited for this summer. I don't have a dog, but I am getting one this June. I'm adopting one from a shelter, and I can't wait. I've saved up almost 300 dollars in the last year and a half. I only have 16 more days of school and they are going by so slow. I've been going crazy trying to find the right dog for me and my family. This summer is going to be an adventure and hard work to keep my dog balanced and tired out, but I can't wait!!! I know that if I follow Cesar's teachings I will have the closest thing to a perfect dog (which will make my dad happy :D )

I will fill everyone in about my dog when I get him, and I'll also be asking for advice (considering this will be my very first dog!).

~Chantel

Reply to msg #94,

Michael, you keep claiming you're such an expert on dogs and dog trainer, but then you turn around and say you don't care for Cesar's focus on dominance. Which makes me wonder just how much experience with dogs you really have.

I grew up around dogs, with a father who believes in very much the same as Cesar does... don't go against Mother Nature.

When my dad started teaching me how to train dogs, we watched a video of a pack of wolves. The way the dominant wolf treat the rest of the pack, is pretty much the shoes you (as a dog owner) is trying to fill.
Or do you disagree?

I'm assuming you agree, because a dog is a pack-animal and YOU are the leader of the pack.

If you know all this, and since you claim to be such an expert on dogs I assume you do, how can say you have differences with working with Mother Nature?

Because that IS what you said... let me quote you "I have differences with his constant stress on “dominance.” But now is not really the time or place to stress on that."

I suggest you sit down and watch a movie about wolves in the wilderness. Maybe then you'll recognize Cesar's use of domination, his use of the "TSST!!", his hand shaped like a dogs mouth, and a whole lot of other things.

One more thing... people who are truly experts, don't run around blowing their own horn, stressing in each post just how great an expert they are on dogs and trainers. You're probably like the rest of us... an expert on your dog.

April,

"Start watching less of what he does and more of the dogs body language and you will be less impressed with the flash."

Interesting...it was watching the dog's body language that convinced me Cesar has, not only a gift, but the ability to teach that gift to others AND to make a really, positive difference in dogs lives.

Reply to 306
Quoting KathyB
"I have hired a professional trainer, watch Cesar’s show and I also get I TON of information from all the amazing trainers and people here. I’m not sure why you would come here if you do not like him, maybe to ask a question???"

I have also hired and talked a few credentialed professional trainers as well as a behaviorist and have one that works with me and my dog.
I working toward being a pro as well.
Why would I come here because this is the official blog to this show and someone needs to point out that all is not a rosy as it seems. Or maybe you can show me I am wrong.

I did ask a question I asked for the names of the behaviorist that back him board certified and vet school trained behaviorist.

You guys are in the know of him and his "skills" I thought you would know if he had any backing from people of the lettered set. That is one thing missing in all this. Oh yes the celebrities back him but where is the actually University level trained in dogs and behavior support of what he does and the current research into dogs not written by him.
To do this job and any other it requires one to get educated and stay current on the latest research.
I like to know what he read outside of his own book.
as well. What is on his bedside table in the reading on educating dogs? What research study is he involved in with University level like Tuffs?

Debbie RBW,

Very well said!

April,

Move away from your theory for a few moments to observe the actual dogs. Maybe wild dogs DON'T have a single pack leader, as wolves do. But here is what I see. Cesar approaches dogs like the Chihuahua that attacks everyone who comes near his owner, or the Lab mix that bites his owners arm in a frenzy when they approach another dog on the street, or the Akita who has broken thru a window to attack a dog in the yard, or the Vizla who bites his owners when they try to retrieve a sock or something else they don't want destroyed (or maybe something dangerous to the dog that he shouldn't ingest) from his mouth.

He calmly shows these dogs that he is in control WITHOUT hurting them, and the result is a relaxed friendly attitude from the dog, who has now abandoned aggression.

I think the dog's reaction speaks for itself. Are a few leash jerks or finger nips which are much more symbolic than painful (I've seen my dogs exert 10 times as much force in play wrestling) worth a lifetime of relaxed non- aggressive behavior? Are they worth it to avoid euthanasia? I think so.

Is it "breaking the dog's spirit" to not allow them to attack humans or other animals? I guess that's a matter of interpretation, but I for one would not want to share my home with a dangerous aggressive dog.

Debbie RBW,

WELL SAID!!!!!

Wow, we've seen and heard the last from April, I would venture! Unless, of course, if she has an open mind. Sadly, I doubt she does.

IF she would pick up Cesar's book and look in the back, she'll see the bibliography, but that might burst her bubble to acutally read his book. It's difficult to have ones world view on any subject challenged. But, it's the hallmark of an intelligent, open mind to at the very least try.

It's the "results" the critics have the most difficult time with. I would love to know the rate of red zone dogs that are rehabed with the positive only method???

How often do we hear of so called professional trainers/behaviorists telling clients there's nothing that can be done for their red zone dog but to be put down????

Cesar has made a huge impact on the dog world, he's challenged the conventional thinking. How difficult that must be for those who can't rehab a red zone dog to know their methods can't spare the lives of these dogs. They have to at some point, look back and know they're responsible in part, for the deaths of the red zone dogs they couldn't rehab.

Bottom line = Cesar saves the lives of the worst of the worst. "There's no dog too difficult for him", how many of the PP trainers can say that?

Someone asked a good question for the PP trainers, what to do when dogs are fighting each other? Do you give them a cookie to break it up???? If your dog is continually fixating on the family cat, do you give the dog a cookie then too?

The green eyed monster found something to feed on, i.e., the lab who was injured. These crtics remind me of a school of sharks...they smelled blood and they think they're going in for the kill. Shame on them.

How many dogs have been spared their very lives

Doggone/GA,

Very well said! And thank you for the great info. I'd love to hear April's response to your post!
But, I won't hold my breath.

April,
the more I read here and elsehwere of the anti-Cesar people, one thing seems to become more clear. The ongoing debate seems to be bewteen people who watch one episode, once in while, one time

vs.

those of us who watch the episodes, tape them, watch them repeatedly, watch the reruns...

Basically, those who see one thing they disagree with, react and take immediate offense

vs.

those who take the time to pay attention, question, study, observe, and repeat that process indefinitely until they feel they have really "got" whatever it is they're wonderin about.

Nobody's distracted by "rosiness" or flash.
We're all well aware that for the people who chose to pay the fee they're paying for the service, they're getting a good, long session out of it and not just 30 minutes (previous season) or an hour (present season). We are all aware that the show is edited- and just as things can be edited to make somebody look good, they can also be edited to make somebody look bad- edited down to whatever the key points are, and yeah, probably whatever works for t.v. BUT, we're all smart enough to be aware of those things and sort out what's what.

I recently read Karen Pryor's book, actually. I thought it was a GREAT book...if you're looking for a self help book. I don't mind learning how to shape the behavior of myself and those around me into more of what I desire from them, but if you're looking for a book specifically about dog training or clicker training, this one isn't it. I enjoyed the anecdotal stories about working with aquatic mammals- such stories are one of my favorite things to read in training books. But it's not a book I would reccommend to a dog person. I wouldn't even use the word "dog" in the title. Like I said, I enjoyed the book, but I really don't feel it has much of a place in dog training, specifically. Would I recommend it if I came across a person who had tried other methods with no luck? Sure, you never know who is going to benefit from what technique more than another, or what might work better for them and their dogs. I've spent the past two years reading dog behavior and training books as a hobby. I haven't always liked what I've read, but, personally, if I find one thing in a book I disagree with but feel the rest of the book is good, then I consider it a good book and one that other people I know might find helpful. On the rare occasion I have found a book that just entirely rubs me the wrong way, well, it goes to the bottom of my list of what I'd tell others about but I've still had to, on occasion, tell a few people about it because they were looking for something specific which that book had. Thus, because we all have different levels of comprehension and different learning styles, you can never completely rule out anything for everybody.

The last thing I want to add is, for those "oh you're just a t.v. show-watching fanatic" people is this: I have been without cable or satellite for a year now. Anything of DogWhisperer I see is what my family is able to dvr, then put on vhs and mail to me. I've seen a few episodes this season, but I haven't seen everything yet. But I can read, catch video clips and see what other's here discuss, and, quite frankly, this is one of very few places I feel like I can comfortably count on the other participants to provide reliable information. Their posts are based on what they see and what they interpret from what they see- much like the anti-Cesar club but without the emotion. When the anti-Cesar club can sit down calmly and rationally and discuss issues without pointing fingers, name calling and other such unadult behaviors, then maybe they will finally earn enough of somebody's time and attention to actually be worth considering what they have to say.

"Dogs and wolves are virtually genetically identical and can naturally breed together and produce fertile offspring. That means their genetics and mating behaviors are identical and that they can understand each others body language and bonding rituals. They are the SAME."

Coyotes that are not year around pack animals which are in the same larger family are more closely alike to dogs then are wolves. They can become more social and trusting of humans based on exposure to humans were wolves will not fully trust a human ever.
A Coyotes can and do become "tame" or bred to dogs make a better mix than a dog/wolf. The body language of a coyotes is more closely relates to that of a dog then that of a wolf and a dog.

No they are not the same it be like gorillas are the same as chimps as the same as spider monkeys are the same as humans. There are similar genes in all of them but it does not make us, gorillas, they and we are different.

As far as being positive only No I am not I can say no along with the rest of you and as far as letting my dog/s attack anyone I do not.
Takes a ton of work and I am doing it any one seen Karen Overalls protocol for relaxation not for the faint of heart.

Also anyone read Turid Rugass book On Talking terms with dogs. Turids been If I remember rightly face to face with a wolf cross with aggression issues and it did not read in body language like a domesticated dog.
Anyone read Canine Body language - Interpreting the Native Language of Domestic Dogs by Brenda Aloff.
After reading these and working with them a while reading a dogs body language will be understandable.

"Where there’s smoke there’s fire? That’s for sure. Every trail of smoke from someone roasting Cesar out of fear and ignorance, has lead me right back to the same group of people, who belong to the same organizations."

Well what organization would that be I do not belong to any organization as yet.

"And don’t forget, as most critics who come here do, that Cesar is working with PROBLEM dogs on his show. Dogs that have already been spoiled and badly trained…up to an including dogs that would kill you or your dog, or both, if given the opportunity."

Well problem dog/s got one here reactive aggressive and her natural state of mind is chemically imbalanced and without the drugs no amount of training his or anyone else's would work. Mine is not nor never was spoiled she was born of a bad gene pool and inflected with a bad set of first owners.
When home and relaxed or in an area of comfort this dog has got the training of an obedience level champ but under any stress her mind goes off.

"If ignorance is lack of knowledge, then stupidity is the blind refusal of knowledge offered.

Some of you folks reeeally need to smarten up"

Humm looks like fear to me and not willing to listen to the others thoughts on things.
I come with knowledge maybe different then yours may not be all right. It all a learning curve one of which I like to explore. Take a little of this toss a little of that and a dash of something else stir and get results but one better pack the knowledge and do it from respectful of that other living beings needs. That not positive training that is respect of life and being kind to a living creature.
I no more let my dog run a muck then any of the children I teach.

I have not attacked Ceaser himself just not agreed with the way he trains fully and well I expect the same.
I will say he is a cutie pie.

April,
"Well problem dog/s got one here reactive aggressive and her natural state of mind is chemically imbalanced and without the drugs no amount of training his or anyone else’s would work".

Where did you get it from?
My chow mix for the first two years of her life was very agressive towards almost anybody. No stranger would come close, she bit my neighbor's child a few times, she bit my own children too. I have a bite marks from her. Everyone (except me and my husband) was afraid of her.
Guess what. She is now 5 years old. Every child can pet her, I walk her off leash in my neighborhood, she would not hurt anyone (except my other dog, but it's a different story). She never got any drugs, and she turned out to be a perfect dog. Why do you think only drugs and chemicals can help? Where did you read that?

Ewa says Where did you get it from?
Where I get what from?
Sorry lost a little here?

Sarah

I will comment on his training but if it reads I think he is a bad person it should not and needs not to.
I can disagree with or not totally agree with his training methods but not say he himself is a bad human that is not and never would be OK nor would I ever ever say anything at all close to a personal attack. He is in the public Eye and he is promoting himself as a great dog trainer to call that into question and to ask why he does as he does is not a bad thing and to bounce that off what you know already and are trying to understand from your base of knowledge is a good learning technique.
But I am being told be others I am a spoiled child having a temper tantrum because I think different that is personal.

Sarah-
"Cesar’s critics are looking more and more like spoiled children throwing a tantrum, especially when compared to the intelligent posts being expressed on this blog."

LOL! My sentiments, exactly!

And in the end, it's really all about teaching the PEOPLE involved, the dogs are only as good as their people and some people really mess up their dogs quite badly. A dog is just the product of it's surroundings. The people that are ready for changing, asking for help and receptive to instruction, willing to do the work and consistently apply a method are the ones that have success. That's why I find it so amusing when someone taking an anti-Cesar stance goes on and on about what they've seen that they chose to object to. Rarely, if ever, does he actually prescribe the "treatment" being objected to. What a professional does in a situation, and what they suggest a non-professional person to do are quite different. Yes, a few people will see things being done on the show, the "don't try this at home" stuff and they will apply it- and probably learn a lesson from it. I've discussed that with peers before. But, we all know how fickle people are. They might see something on t.v., try it for a week, and then forget about it. Or try it once but find they "just don't have the time' to keep applying it (good or bad techniques both).

Funny how we're really not hearing much in the way of disputing the actual teaching, method or practice.

April,

Your views would hold more credibility if you truly understood his philolopsy, I can say that you don't from your comment; " he is promoting himself as a great dog trainer".
He isn't doing any such thing, in fact, it's quite the opposite. He specifcally says he is NOT a dog trainer.

Do your credibility a favor and read his book then come back and we can discuss the differences you have with his methods.

It's nearly impossible to have an intelligent, thoughtful discussion until you have more information then just watching a few episodes of the Dog Whisperer.

I hope you will consider familiarzing yourself with his philosophy first hand. I'm sure you're a bright person and it would be interesting to have a discussion once you're fully informed.

Thanks K2,
we will continue to excersise our dogs with the bike.poor
Shirley, i don't think i should take her out today, as she is hardly walking on her injured foot, plus, my husband & son took the other dog with them to do a side job in the mountains, so shirley is laying by the front screen door waiting, but hopefully, by monday, maby i can take her out for a while-walking of course. all our other dogs in the past had a healthy respect for the bike tire & all we had to do was warn them,even if a dog was near & they would quickly pay attention, but not shirley,she gets fixated with dogs,she loves to play at the dog park & is not aggressive,she just wants to play. she's getting better.

"He isn’t doing any such thing, in fact, it’s quite the opposite. He specifcally says he is NOT a dog trainer."

OK so he calls him self a dog whisper. He is no where in the class of Montey Roberts or Chris Irwin. Oh did I toss a few name you do not know. Go look at their work that is whispering and it is an art form.
You assume I have no clue about whisper work and the art form it can be.
Does he have a PR firm?
Does he have a show?
Does he have a book?
Has he been on Oprah?
Is That not promoting himself ?

April,

I didn't say he wasn't promoting himself, I said he wasn't promoting himself as a "dog trainer". I was only referring to your assertion that is is promoting himself as such. It's only indicitive of how little you understand this man's philosophy.

Have you even looked at his book to at least see the bibliogrophy? He does refer to established professionals.

Again, please read his book, become fully informed and then we can have a thoughtful, meaningful discussion on the differences you have with his philosophy.

Thanks :)

MODERATOR'S NOTE: This post has been deleted.

"OK so he calls him self a dog whisper. He is no where in the class of Montey Roberts or Chris Irwin. Oh did I toss a few name you do not know. Go look at their work that is whispering and it is an art form."

Animal "whispering" is actually a skill that can be learned, but like all skills some are better at it than others. I can take a horse that has never been lunged and teach it to lunge properly and to follow my body language signals with NO equipment whatsoever - just me, the horse and a circular lunge ring.

Am I a "horse whisperer"? No, I'm not...it's a skill I LEARNED from reading a book on the technique and then practicing it. This BTW is some of what Monty Roberts does as well.

Why not try giving us some examples of DOG "whisperers" to compare, instead of horse "whisperers"?

Why not try giving us some examples of DOG “whisperers” to compare, instead of horse “whisperers”?

Turid

Linda Tellington

"I do that but I read things as the way I think them I can read asd as and even if it spelt wrong cause my brain runs it as the right word. I would need a back up reader other then myself to get the grammer mistakes"

But no one has criticised your grammar. It's a lack of punctuation that makes your thoughts "run together" and be hard to interpret. And yes, I, too, used to have trouble proofreading my own words. As with most things it's a skill that you have to learn and practice and it mostly means stop THINKING about what you tried to say and READ what you ACTUALLY SAID.

To the best of my knowledge, if you are not so dyslexic that you can't even type or write your thoughts - due to never seeing the same word the same way twice - then you CAN learn proofreading skills. It's just more diffucult.

For instance, *I* reverse letters, but in the same word I'll do it the same way every time - so I learn to catch my own mistakes. My biggest problem is putting in a work that is incorrect - like using "and" for "at" - and I actually find those harder to catch than the spelling errors, but every dyslexic is different and...like training dogs...you have to learn to tailor your proofreading techniques to your own "style" of dyslexic errors.

"Turid"

This one I'm not familiar with - but I read some reviews of his book on Amazon and find one of them, in particular very interesting! They sound like someone who has read Cesar's book:

"The other dog understands, if he has been allowed to "practice" dog language in lots of meetings with other dogs, but we, the humans, the supposed alphas, don't understand. Instead we try to teach the dog OUR verbal language. How frustrating for the dog! Shouldn't we first learn the dog's language? "

"Turid is Norwegian and also represents the European way: to look at the dog as a dog and try to understand how it thinks and feels and acts in a pack."

I think I will buy it and read it. Should be interesting

"Linda Tellington"

Her book I have and very useful it is too, but she is more concerned with re-adjusting the physical issue an animal has and how they impact the behavior. Her's is not necessarily one of working with the mind to get better balance. But that doesn't make her techniques and Cesar's mutually exclusive either.

I happen to be a proponent (as others here know) of William Koehler's training philosophy and I tend to recommend his book to some people with some issues with their dogs. I know it's fashionable, and has been for some time, to denigrate his techniques and no, I'm not a 100% follower of what he does. But I think a lot of his techniques mesh quite well with Cesar's pack leader ideas and that he can give frustrated owners the proper TRAINING techniques to compliment Cesar's rehabilitation techniques.

Some of his techniques are different from how Cesar would to things, but based on my experience of using them (plus some techniques from other trainers as well) I find they hold up pretty well - when, as always, they are used PROPERLY.

MODERATOR'S NOTE: THIS POST HAS BEEN DELETED.

Domestic dogs also have adapted to mimic some human body language. A “smile” for example. My own dog does this. This would be considered “bared teeth” and an entirely different signal if she did this to another dog.

I am well aware of this.

I have been taugh and have learn to watch my moves so a dog can read me more clearly that we as humans do not always read clear.

No I will not like him if sticking his fist in a small dogs mouth is ok.
I wonder what he teachs as an ok. I see the nos but I am not seeing the yes.
No you can not go into that pool. No you can not bite what is he willing to let the dog do instead.
You keep saying No then tend to give up on anything.

Joanna says:

April, Sorry about the personal attack. I’m not really totally anal, but I was finding it hard to understand some of your posts cuz of the lack of periods. I found myself straining to interpret exactly what you meant. Then I got irritated about it. Ya got me on the spell check all right!

Thank you
Can you see my side- is my words you do not understand or is it my actual view. Tough to try and figure the world out sometimes when the skill to communicate is hindered in some way. If we could talk face to face be easier.
Wait! much like a dog not being able to make us understand it needs as we do not listen to his language or see his side of things.

William Koehler’s training philosophy and I tend to recommend his book to some people with some issues with their dogs.
I do not know this book or him.
Title please.

April,

I'll ask again, HAVE YOU READ HIS BOOK"?

If you continue to refuse to answer, I'll just have to take that as an admission you have not.

With that presumption in mind, then again, you cannot possibly have the true understanding of his philosophy.
And therefore cannot comment with credibility.

You're using "emotion" as your guide, you've seen something you don't like or approve of, i.e., fist in mouth. Which, by the way, I've never seen so I'm not sure what you're referring to. But, in any case, until you have a firm grasp of the philosophy of Cesars your points are almost mute.

Please, read his book, familiarize yourself, first hand and not based soley on emotion, what his techniques are about and what lies at the core of his philosolphy.

You may just be pleasently surprised to learn you've mis-judged Cesar's techniques.

Btw, in case you don't know, the name of his book is, "Cesar's Way".

"Title please"

The Koehler Method of Dog Training

Either the original edition, or the more recent, updated edition - either one. The training techniques are the same, he just updates and comments on some of his critics in the second edition.

I also recommend Patricia Gail Burnham's "Playtraining Your Dog"

I combine methods from both, as well as some things I was taught long ago *that I mentioned earlier) and sort of have my own "system" that I use.

fist in mouth. Which, by the way, I’ve never seen so I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

Was in a clip on his web site was a chi and it came back on the other day as an up date. It looked like a lump of fuzz on it owners chest rather then a living breathing dog with a soul and a brain.
Looked like if I sit here quiet then they will leave me alone and that was it only thought. There was no need by it to investigate a new place like a normal dog would want to do.
It got passed from owner to the Friend with out any response over a lump. That is a dog gone in the brain.
That is not a good thing to see.
No joy of life just udder compliances and that is not a happy dog. Dog's have a brain and being able to use it is a joy within the rule set by a benevolent owner.
The owner can train the brain to work with you not crush it.
I have learned to watch a human and a dog. Words do not tend to mean a whole bunch when they are writen to sell a book. Action speck louder then words most offend when working with dogs. I read the words if I do not have the picture to see and in his case he on TV I see the picture.
He needs to be more clear on his show this takes days or even years to fix not a 1/2 hour show that cut and edited to fit.

Doggone/GA says:

“Title please”

The Koehler Method of Dog Training

Either the original edition, or the more recent, updated edition - either one. The training techniques are the same, he just updates and comments on some of his critics in the second edition.

I also recommend Patricia Gail Burnham’s “Playtraining Your Dog”

I combine methods from both, as well as some things I was taught long ago *that I mentioned earlier) and sort of have my own “system” that I use.

Thanks
I will run these by my trainer to see the thoughts and go from there to read them.

My system dare I say is based on Terry Ryan, Brenda Aloff, My trainer yes she is clicker but my girl needs that adjusted cause she thinks clicker is play time, Patrica McConnell and oh dear one more I forget him... John Wright and Jean Donaldson and me.

Debbie RBW
You are welcome.
I like Turid as she seems like you said positve but not pushy or buzzy. You want another try Terry Ryan positive but not pushy.

Linda- I think is more than just the touches. I have had to pleasure of working with a T touch level one in companion animals but a full horse T touch person.
I called her and she came a running when i said I needed help even thought she just started dog stuff and boy is she making a differnts in the cats at the rescue and in reactive dogs already.
It mystical what can happen and very not conected to the real world sometimes but it works so very well on bad boys and girls and spooky ones.
I not had the pleasre of actually meeting Linda yet but I hope to meet her sister that is also a t touch trainer this summer.
You are not reading the dogs body languag you are reading the dogs actual body.
You hands are on it and you are feeling what they are saying no try that with a biter. I have. You open your fingers to info.

Doggone,

Yep! You are right about other dogs seeing the "grin" as a submissive gesture and I agree that that is basicly what "it" is. What's really funny is most humans who do not know the dog, or understand what the dog is trying to communicate, think the dog is "baring teeth" at them.

April,

It is very clear to me that you are indeed reading "submissive" signals as "fear" and "no joy in life" and "not a happy dog". Saying someone has "crushed it"? Your statements are only missing the "broken spirit" buzz phrase of the Positive Method proponents.

I guess "happy" to you, is really an "excited" dog. Another misconception.

Where does Cesar ever say on his show everything is "fixed"? Days or weeks nothing. The owners must live his philosophy daily for the rest of the dog's life. A dog is not an appliance which is simply fixed.

Blind refusal to read Cesar's book because everything you need to make a judgement call is something you see on TV?

Now I AM afraid...very afraid. *shivers* :)

April,

I have enjoyed talking to you. I'm sure I will enjoy reading the books you recommended. I also have some reading to do from Cesar's recommended book list.

Give Cesar's book a read. His show demonstrates his methods in handling and rehabilitation of some pretty severe cases, but his book contains the philosophy behind his methods. I highly recommend it.

Take Care!

Deb

"No wolf lives in total sud mission one to another all its life it changes form one minute to the next form one situation to the next."

I fear you are failing to understand true submission in canines. I also fear that you are reading "submission" and thinking "fearful submission" - they are NOT the same thing AT ALL.

What cesar strives for is the submission of a subordinate wolf to it's pack leader. That is not fearful submission - wolves are not afraid of their pack leader. They are TRUSTING of him. Wolf packs that can't trust their pack leader soon depose him from that position.

And, yet again, you are conflating Cesar's techniques with training the dog. What Cesar is doing on his shows is NOT TRAINING. What he is doing are techniques he has developed, based on his experiences AND his self-education that show the dog the way to a BALANCED life, but also a life where that dog is NOT the leader of his human/canine pack.

He IS asking the dog to "use the brain GOD gave it" - by showing it how to achieve a balanced outlook that also acknowledges the dominance of it's human pack leader or leaders. It has nothing to do with "blind obedience."

It becomes clearer and clearer that you have NOT seen a lot of Cesar's shows and that you have NOT read his book. You would not be making these errors about his methods if you had.

What cesar strives for is the submission of a subordinate wolf to it’s pack leader. That is not fearful submission - wolves are not afraid of their pack leader. They are TRUSTING of him. Wolf packs that can’t trust their pack leader soon depose him from that position.

I recommend that your read
Dominance Theory and Dogs by James O’Heare.
Alpha and dominance research was started on chickens and I know for a fact dogs and chickens are no where alike.
Chicken are straight-line hierarchy or pecking order, the therory is based on wrongly applied theory, and data just not followed the right way through to the end.
Wolves are not a hierarchy either it is a family blend that rolls with the needs of it members as the current research shows.

After reading some Koehler on Doggone's recommendation I can see that this was the method used by the most effective dog class instructor I ever had. Like Koehler, she taught every command one baby step at a time, and always immediately corrected/insisted on compliance. The dogs in this class learned amazingly quickly and performed with great consistency under many distractions. I kept all my notes from that class.

What the trainer did not use were some of the more harsh corrections that Koehler recommends. I can see that these would be a huge turn-off to a lot of people. My own reaction was, "I could never do that! THank goodness I am not training dogs for competition or Hollywood, where absolute consistency is required."

Got a trainer the area that is on many movie shots with her animals of all kinds. Guess what coincident and a dare I say it clicker trainer. OH No there the bad word LOL
Am I wrong is the dog off of Fraser clicker based or at least positive based if not straight up clicker. I could be wrong.
Oh yes the dog of of good boy aggressive to other dogs and his owner was going positive too was what I last heard.

Dare I say the guy that did most of the work for Lord of the Rings is wait for it from our area and he positive based to. OH my. Oh yes forgot that horses that not transferable to dogs but chicken research is ok to put on dogs.

Truth be told you can shape a dog into better behaviors with a clicker if you have the time working with it.
Messy I will kill you, I will eat you dogs sometimes you have to go a little faster then straight up clicker but no reason to do what I have seen.
I am a firm believe in teach the action before the word and then put it on a word or I prefer hand signals so other around me do not work my dog.
No I am not a have to watch Ceaser everday or every week I have seen a few. To painful to watch for to long.
I took down 7 pages of dog language that I saw that he did not deal with and I saw the chi more then enough for me.

By the way K2 bravo! My sentiments exactly, I also got alot out of what u said.

K2,

Very well said!

However, it seems to me it's nearly impossible to get thru to those who have their minds made up.

April,

Until and unless you read his book, you will NEVER understand what nearly everyone here is trying to say, and that is, you don't understand Cesar's core principles.

I have respect for differing views, WHEN the opposing view to mine comes from knowledge, NOT from watching a few episodes of DW.

You're too busy to read Cesar's book, but not busy enough to come here and pick apart Cesar's techniques.
You can't possibly comment on his philosophy because you refuses to read his book and get the full impact of what he teaches.

You're whistling in the wind, I'm sorry to say. Several very knowledgable people here, (far more then myself) have said it much better, but until you read his book, STUDY his techiniques, try to implement them in some form your credibility is nearly nil.

I have enjoyed reading the exchanges and I've learned alot just this afternoon, I'm glad you're here and hope you'll come back often. Iron sharpens iron, and that can only be a good thing.

K2

Very well said!

Bootsmut,

When my dog was limping I took her for very short walks, just to the front yard, so she could see the action. We stood there, or walked very slowly, whatever she chose to do. This was when I was trying to limit her excercise. Then she came back, run through the doggie doors to the backyard, and chased squirrells, like nothing was hurting. Of course she came back inside limping.
I think you could take your dog outside, and let her choose if she wants to walk or not.

"After reading some Koehler on Doggone’s recommendation I can see that this was the method used by the most effective dog class instructor I ever had. Like Koehler, she taught every command one baby step at a time, and always immediately corrected/insisted on compliance."

But this is not Koehler's method. Corrections do not come until AFTER the dog knows the commands. Corrections are not a training tool, they are only used when a dog refuses to obey a command it knows...it doesn't know them while it's still learning them.

" The dogs in this class learned amazingly quickly and performed with great consistency under many distractions. I kept all my notes from that class."

Yes, properly done you do get a very well-proofed dog, because you have taught him not only the commands he should know, but also - though this isn't actually stressed in Koehler's bood - to TRUST you when you give those commands.

"What the trainer did not use were some of the more harsh corrections that Koehler recommends. I can see that these would be a huge turn-off to a lot of people."

Yes, they can be - and are. But Koehler originally wrote his book because he had been dealing with people very like some of the ones Cesar is dealing with: people who didn't lead their dogs, who didn't know the proper way to correct them or to train them; and people who had what Cesar now calls "red zone" dogs and who needed to get them under control. Yes, today we have other techniques but even so, I can envision situations where some of Koehler's techniques might still be effective.

"My own reaction was, “I could never do that! THank goodness I am not training dogs for competition or Hollywood, where absolute consistency is required.”

Believe it or not, you can use Koehler's methods and virtually not have to use any but the mildest of corrections...but it does mean starting with a very easy-going dog and starting that dog YOUNG. That's what I do - I usually get my puppies at around 8-12 weeks and they go immediately into training.

The BIG difference between how I train and how Koehler trains is that he is adamantly against using food for rewards or guides, and I get my best results using techniques that use food for both. That hasn't turned me "off" of Koehler (obviously!)...it just means I've tempered his advice with MY own experience.

know the episode you’re speaking about, with the chihuahua. It was my impression he wasn’t putting his fist in the dog’s mouth, but the opposite, the dog was trying to bite him.

Look again that hand was moving in and around the mouth, and not out.
You see the recap... Gone in the head lights on and no one is home.

I like to see what he does besides make a noise or flood the dog with info or run it until it to tire to care about anything else. A tired dog is a good dog but it is not a dog that is able to learn and retain that which it is to be learning. It is one the is more willing to give up. That is not learning.
Someone else posted he hit a dog missed that episode.

"However, it seems to me it’s nearly impossible to get thru to those who have their minds made up."

My mind is not made up prove he does not Flood, Prove he does not run the pants off his dogs.
Prove he knows a dog is different then a chicken and also wild wolves. NO wait wolves and dogs are them same darn I forgot. Start quoting his book if you all know it so well
Prove that you know that which your are talking about.
Sounds like you watch it and do not read anything but rough training but that ok takes many to make the world go around.
I have a feeling I am a great blend of many training Fields. I see many here are all Ceaser and see only his way as right. Slamming the positive shows your lack in understand a long standing fact based science with the research to back it> That is followed through start to finish unlike alpha and dominance.
whisperer breathe words voicelessly is the definition.
He is all to loud in his training, effective or not he is to rough and ready to tangle. When backing off and taking time be a choice. Plowing over a dogs needs whether physical or mental or dare I say emotional to make progress is wrong.

Great observation Sarah!

Best way not to get your fingers bit, is to make a fist. This way if the dog gets in a nip, he can't grab a digit!

They usually settle down quickly once they see they are no longer calling the shots, and are no longer owning everything and everyone in the room, including the female of the house if they are "guys". :)

Great post k2!

Almost every person who goes after Cesar, refuses to read his book. They are good a quoting other people's opinions and repeating what their "mentors" have taught them, but there is very little independant thought or extensive observation, interaction, training, or rehabilitation of a number of dogs.

Book learnin' is not practical application. Theories are not reality, until proven. Progressive research often disproves current theories. Real life must be experienced, not simply studied, and no stone should be left unturned in understanding the whole picture.

I'd say Cesar's critics have a heck of a rock yet to look under.

Don't fear the rock. Do not fear Cesar. Aw c'mon, it's only a little book...

April, I can't believe you're describing the same TV show that I watch every week! Are you kidding me??! "Too Loud"??? Huh? Cesar doesn't use vocal commands AT ALL. "too painful to watch" ????? I get JOY out of watching Dog Whisperer on National Geographic Channel. I sit there smiling and loving every minute of it, and then crying tears of happiness when the people finally "get it" and understand what they're supposed to do! I just can't believe anyone could see it as cruel or painful. I'm sorry, you are entitled to your opinion, but I am sitting here in shock right now. How could two people see something SO, SO, SO differently? Wow. I don't know what to say.

And there you go again, being one of the people who ALREADY practices Cesar's methods without even knowing it!! (watch this, this is what you said) "I am not a vet but how is she going to be if she does not burn a little energy. Mine get edgy."
BINGO!! THAT is what Cesar's MAIN NUMBER ONE lesson is. I call it "CESAR 101" -- walk your dog to burn off that energy, 'cause otherwise they will get edgy. Short version: "exercise" April, with all due respect, you are already practicing the same methods as Cesar does, even though you don't realize it because you see snippets of the show that you're seeing as "painful". I see them as wonderful. My mind is just blown away that you see it SO differently than I do. Wow, it just is totally freaking me out, it makes me SAD, actually, like really, really sad. Why would an educational TV channel like NGC run a show that shows animal cruelty? They wouldn't! They aren't! I'm just devastated that somebody thinks that it's painful to watch. Makes my stomach hurt! LOL!

One other thing: I have NO PROBLEM with clicker training, and I use hand signals and voice commands all the time. I think you're missing the point of Cesar's followers/fans -- we're not practicing ONLY Cesar/Dog Whisperer techniques -- I think I can speak for just about everybody here when I say that we use a combination of all of the above. I use positive reinforcement techniques with my dogs, as well as hand signals and I don't use a clicker but I'm certainly not against clicker training at all. With my black Lab, when she became so old and deaf, boy was I grateful that I had not only taught her voice commands but also hand signals at the same time. Not realizing that when she got old and deaf, I could revert to the hand signals -- and it was great being able to do that. So, I personally do "all of the above" -- but I have to say that my dogs were getting into a lot of trouble (and me by association!!) and the ONLY THING that saved me from being constantly hurt by my dogs (dragging me down on the ground when on walks) was learning how to "master the walk" and positioning myself as pack leader. And I'm sorry but no other trainer was able to fix my problems -- only watching Dog Whisperer, over and over again, and then practicing what I learned, worked.

Remember that the episodes of DW can only show so much. They are "edited" due to time constraints. The viewer is supposed to get the "general idea" of each of Cesar's clients. I'm sure you did see many signals and dog language being passed from the dogs to Cesar, but the TV show, which is only an hour long, and only 15-30 minute per segment, can't show every single thing that Cesar deals with.

I still can't fathom anyone seeing this show as "too painful to watch." Wow.

Doggone says:

"True, and not only that, but pushing that fist towards him, makes it more unfomfortable and he changes from wanting to reach out and bite you, to backing away - which all helps the rehabilitation process."

Absolutely. "Claiming space" is part of what Cesar uses to establish his position with the dog. It really is so very simple.

His use of very subtle communications with a dog, is quite beatutiful to watch. But, I am seeing the dog become stable and enjoy these moments as much as k2 mentioned she does.

Someone else may view this interaction from a very different frame of mind and a projection of their own emotions onto the dog. This can put the true needs of the dog last, in favor of how this person "feels".

Almost every person who goes after Cesar, refuses to read his book. They are good a quoting other people’s opinions and repeating what their “mentors” have taught them, but there is very little independent thought or extensive observation, interaction, training, or rehabilitation of a number of dogs.

I not refused never said I would not, never said I have not either. Someone is assuming again.

"How could two people see something SO, SO, SO differently? Wow. I don’t know what to say."

That is what makes us and different. That is the diffence between my training and yours, maybe the next time you sit down to watch you will watch a little closer and see thing a little different. Still does not make you or I wrong just differnt.

Really you know me. I am quoting, yes but some of it me.
An I can talk with the best. Give me a dog in need I will make a plan to train.
Me, not Ceaser not a mentor but I will call if I need to as that is what a mentor is for back up.
I do it all the time and am quite able to do it.
For the aggressive ones and the ones just normal and rude cause the owners do not train.

"True, and not only that, but pushing that fist toward him makes it more uncomfortable and he changes from wanting to reach out to bite you to backing away - which all helps the rehabilitation process. I’ve used exactly that technique on overly pushy puppies for years."

Get your hand out of the dogs mouth Pushing forward is wrong. No need try getting up, try turning your back, try removing your hands. try a firm No or a ahh.
You just told me I was right he pushed his fist in a dogs mouth Thanks.

"Methinks April is getting to the “protesting” stage of her rehabilitation. No April, it is not up to us to PROVE anything to you."

There should be no reason to protest rehab non if it done out of respect. Why is it not up to you to prove it. You are in is little group of followers and you say you know his ways best. teach it.

"But as long as you are protesting from a position of ignorance about him and his methods don’t expect anyone HERE to take your criticisms seriously. "

Teach! your expect me to just accept it. Teach it. Stop to seconds and teach what he teaches using words. If you know it you should be able to teach and willing to.
Can you?
I can teach that which I know in words and in actions.

"Animal “whispering” is actually a skill that can be learned, but like all skills some are better at it than others."
It can be learned but it is still an art to do and one many do not master only play at.

"I’d say Cesar’s critics have a heck of a rock yet to look under." ???? what does this mean. I am not looking under any rocks I am looking right here teach.

Doggone/GA you are yelling when you use capitals that is neither kind respectful nor pack leader like that protest a bully. If you are getting frustrated take a break.
Walk around the block and come on back but ywlling solves not a thing.

Cesar “loud”??? You’re not serious are you?"

There is loud by voice and loud be action he is loud by action to loud.

You put him near my dog she not be best please as he to physically loud for her.
sensitive aggressive dogs need a more gentle way of training and not all up in thier face.

“True, and not only that, but pushing that fist toward him makes it more uncomfortable and he changes from wanting to reach out to bite you to backing away - which all helps the rehabilitation process. I’ve used exactly that technique on overly pushy puppies for years.”

"One says yes one say no. Now what??"

I don't believe Doggone is referring specifically to the episode with the chihuahua, but rather he's discussing his view on making a fist so the dog can't bite the fingers.

Cesar made a fist so the dog could NOT bite his fingers..smart move on Cesar's part. Who do you know likes getting bit?

"I mean no dis-respect, but I don’t know what you mean by this comment, it sounds like a personal slam..are you saying for me the lights are on but nobody is home?"

No she isn't talking about you. She saw the second episode, the "recap" and saw the owner and her partner passing the Chihuahua back and forth and the dog was quiet, and complacent about it...unlike how he was originally when he attacked EVERYONE except his owner. What she hasn't seen is the FIRST show and how bad he was.

What she is trying to say is that in HER OPINION the dog came out of of Cesar's "training" with "the lights on, but no one home" - in other words, based on one very short recap she thinks Cesar turned the dog into a Zombie.

A pretty fair example of just how little she has actually SEEN of his shows.