Nazi Scrapbook from Hell Q&A
Greg Chapman
Research
I had the chance to sit down with Producer Erik Nelson from Creative Differences and Nat Geo Channel's Senior Vice President of Programming Michael Cascio and talk about this Sunday's premiere of Nazi Scrapbook From Hell. The film uncovers a part of the Holocaust that was once thought to be unrecorded, but thanks to Washington D.C. Holocaust Museum and Erik's work there is now documentation and photographic evidence of what life was like behind the fences of the death camp at Auschwitz. This film profiles a series of contrasting photos - one series portrays the banality of evil, while the other profiles the horror of life behind the wire.
Greg: What was it like for you personally being part of unearthing such a unique historical artifact?
Erik: The artifact was donated to the USHMM, so, it existed and was being analyzed well before we began the film. Our contribution to the scholarship and the on-going analysis was the forensic history work that placed Hoecker on the killing ramp.
Michael: The photographs existed - and were discovered - independently of National Geographic, but we were fortunate that our producer had the expertise to react quickly to the discovery of the photos and suggest that we build a program around them. We are also grateful that the Holocaust Museum allowed us to use the photos to educate a wide audience about this latest piece of evidence of the worst atrocity in contemporary history, the Holocaust.Greg: What was your first reaction when you first looked at these photos?
Erik: Not so much shock at the banality of evil, but shock at the NORMALCY of evil. It looks like they are all enjoying a typical day at the office, when what they were really doing was killing thousands of men, women and children daily, and routinely. That routine is what this album and film is all about.
Michael: To me, the photos are perplexingly normal. The fact that these Nazis were simply taking a break from their job - killing millions of Jews - and enjoying life just a stone's throw from Auschwitz is just too weird for words.
Greg: Why do you think it took so long for this album to be exposed?
Erik: The donor kept it as a souvenir of his time in Germany, so, he probably didn't realize its value to history.
Greg: The film mentions how a number of these photos humanize the commanders and guardsmen at the camps - how did this influence you when you were putting this film together?
Erik:Well, Charlie Chaplin once said about comedy, "if what you doing is funny, you don't have to be funny doing it". A corollary here is, if what you document is horrific, you don't have to be horrific doing it. So, no scary music, no breathless narration pounding home the evil, just the images, speaking for themselves, in their own innocently menacing voice.
Michael: The "humanization" causes viewers to think: They don't look evil, so how could this happen? How could they be so frivolous with death all around them? It raises some fundamental questions about human nature, and the peculiar circumstances that led to the Holocaust.
Greg: "Monsters at play and monsters at work" - A very strong, yet fitting statement about this scrapbook. How psychologically draining was it for you to study all these photos when some are humanizing and others terrifying?
Erik: The album is a direct link across decades to the hearts and minds of the killers -- and that link is a two way one. The images get in your head, and you are forced to see these killers as the human beings that they thought they they were-- and that is not the way that anyone prefers to see them.
Michael: I was simply blown away when I saw these photos put in the framework of what was actually going on at Auschwitz - the torture, beatings and the horror of the gas chamber.
Greg: Some of the models of the camps and crematoriums that are included in the film and the details jump off the screen; how surreal was it for you to film all of the horrors that encapsulate this topic?
Erik: Being alone, in the Holocaust Museum, late at night, filming the astonishing model and diorama of the Auschwitz gas chamber and crematorium was more than surreal, it was transporting to a place and time where nobody wants to go. I felt the ghosts were in the room with us, and it was intensely discomforting.
Michael: The details are almost always moving. In this case, even more so - because of the photos bring a fresh perspective, new evidence and context. The decision to use the model was a stroke of brilliance and necessity: There are no known photos of the gas chambers and crematoria in action. Without the model, we would have had to resort to other techniques, including re-creations or movie versions of the Holocaust, which would have cheapened the authenticity of the program.
Greg: Why did you decide to make this film?
Erik: The Holocaust has been documented many times, but, these images force the viewer to look at this tragedy from a different perspective -- that of the perpetrators. This scrapbook doesn't let the viewer off the hook, doesn't allow the viewer to compartmentalize and dismiss what happened as something that is ancient history. By allowing the images to speak for themselves, without overtly imposing the editorializing of the filmmaker, it puts the viewer in a position were they have to grapple with what William Faulkner wrote; "The past isn't dead. It isn't even past".
Greg: What is the one thing that you would want our viewers to take away from this film?
Michael: We're not that far removed in history from the Holocaust, yet I suspect there are viewers who are not that familiar with it. This is, frankly, a program to reach out to viewers who may need a reminder about this tragic chapter in modern history. We also wanted to show how the power of still photos can bring history - and its horror - to life. We're able to use new technology to analyze the photos, and help piece together more details about Auschwitz, and give viewers a modern view of this tragedy.
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17 Comments
God bless you for this.
I am a middle-aged woman of mostly European Christian descent, but ever since I first learned about the Holocaustas a child, I have been a changed person. That millions of people could have knowingly and very deliberately have done this to millions of other human beings is a nightmare without end. I am currently taking an online class taught by Dr. Paul Kopperman and I have been surprised by the degree to which young students are unaware of the long, bitter history of anti-semitism and of how the the Holocaust is but the tip of the iceberg which is anti-semitic and racial hatred.
Remembering the Holocaust reminds us that human beings are capable of great evil, but it also urges us to build a better world.
Never forget.
Remembering the holocaust is all well and good but I feel we must remember the circumstances that led up to the holocaust. Inflation, nationalism, union busting, Hitler's propaganda machine, ie press (printed and film), and demoralization of the German people. We must also look in a mirror for the monsters within. Our own history of racial predjudice and hatred.
Erik, Michael - thank you for making this film and sharing the content of this scrapbook with the world. I had always thought that the people involved were largely forced or at least coerced into their actions. I can't find the words to describe the feelings I have as I contemplate the happy expressions on the faces of men playing accordion and women dancing, knowing they are responsible for the horrors happening so nearby. Erik, the film is remarkable and I appreciate your choice to use the diorama as you did. I think CGI graphics or filmed re-enactments would have trivialized the terror of the gas chamber and crematorium.
The proof you formulated about Karl Hoecker as the one being on the selection platform is 100% wrong. The man on the platform is a NCO. Karl Hoecker was a SS Obersturmfuhrer or is English terms a first Leutenant. Officers would never wear a uniform of a sergent. Ask any miliary historian, he will tell you the same thing.
Dear sirs... very intersting and compelling show... but I agree with Mr. Webster already posted. It is very clear that the SS man on the platform is wearing a uniform consistent with an NCO, not an officer. Why would Hoecker wear a uniform of a SGT? I agree that you need to have someone else who is familiar with SS uniforms confirm this. It seems quite obvious to me and I am not an expert. This should have been done prior to completing this program, considering how important the subject matter is and the time taken during the program to confirm this was Hoecker. Thank you for the great topic and programming.
Yes, as stated above, the man on the platform is clearly wearing an NCO uniform as denoted by the shiny silver braid on his collar edge. They shouldn't have gone through all of the trouble to duplicate the scene as that settles it in a glimpse. It is obvious that the German officer, the subject of the film, was there playing a role in the holocaust on the platform or not. The people that made that film should have gotten it right. and....."We don't study Nazi Uniforms!" isn't a good enough excuse. Without the Nazis there would be No Holocaust!!!! Just my two pfennigs
I have to sadly add my comments on your error to those of the people above. As a historical artist I've sought to honnor the victims of the holocaust and educate people that it really did happen. This included visting a death camp and collecting a large library on the subject. I am really disapointed in you for such a, well, bush leauge mistake. It affects your creditability. I feel you need to address this with all the people involved and hope that in the future they will not mis the forrest through the trees.
Since I was posting to complain about your being inaccurate in my above message, I feel I need to apologize for my typos.
I am much more used to paint brushes than computers. I hit Post instead of Back while previewing my message. I also wanted to add that I don't belive Hoecker for second when he says he didn't know what was going on in the camp. That he escaped punishment is a much bigger mistake.
I found this program most moving- as a holocaust educator for over twenty-five years, before retirement, I only wish that I had this show to use in my classes. I hope that there is going to be (a) a book published of the photos and (b) that a dvd will be available for classroom use in the very near future - for time is of significance in getting to thr youth!
Dear Sirs...I watched the program on the "Nazi Scrapbook" last night, I'm a little late in responding,as the gentelmen above already discovered that the SS-Man on the platform was an SS-NCO. The SS uniforms of non-comisioned officers had a silver/white flat braid called "Tres" around their collars, and around their shoulderboards.
It is very important to study and research the SS orginization to understand all aspects of the Holocaust; even SS uniforms. Also of note from the photo album is that many of the officers from the photo's were wearing combat decorations,meaning that they were transfered from the Waffen-SS.
One of the themes in the program seemed to be the revelation that these SS-Men were human! Another indication that these reseachers are not doing all their homework. These SS-Men were human, very ordinary men of lesser character! They were from middle class and lower middle class origins. Their motivation was upward mobility, most of them didn't hate or love Jews, they just didn't care. Which makes them another kind of monster.
Germany didn't have a real love affair with the Jewish people before the Holocaust. If your a young man from the lower class, the new SS looks pretty good as a place to improve one's social condition. The SS officers at the camp didn't have to get their hands dirty; they were diconnected mentally, and mostly physically from the events within the camp.
There are accounts of SS-Men who were outraged and sickend by these camps after being transfered there. They were queitly transfered to other posts. The reality of the Holocaust isn't hard to understand when you concider the following points: German men of lesser character who were opertunist, and were totally loyal to their SS orginization, and in pleasing their leaders. The indiffernce to the Jewish people, and the ignored fact of a people willing to submit to persecution as a traditional badge of honor.
If such people were sadistic, one would expect a scrapbook contain photos of torture, killings, maiming, etc. Where are they?
Heck, we saw such photos from our work at Abu Ghraib.
Wake-up viewers! This whole thing is to perpetuate sympathy. In our more relevant, present time, there are plenty of examples of atrocities, including genocide. Many on a huge scale. Let's deal with those rather than dwell on past unfortunate. Hey ever notice these unfortunates happen to be a single cultural/religious group? Wow, what about the many, many, many more that died during WWII.
Another US Holocaust Museum production - justifying its existence at taxpayer expense.
Websters defines a monster, 2nd definition: grotesque or disgusting person. In my opinion everyone who participated in the Nazi atrocities were monsters. However,these monsters were void of conscience and don't forget the male competitive ego, especially at that time among Nazi's when male virility and brawn was of utmost importance. Is it true there is no word for sympathy in the German language?
Mary -
Respectfully, I can very easily substitute "American" (or any other culture for that matter), for "Nazi" in your comment and it would still hold true.
German word is "sympathie" same as French and similar to English (all derived from Greek word).
Visionary's comment above: logic about photos and Abu Ghraib is very interesting.
WARNING to those those seeking the truth: Natl Geo removed a comment I made which presented facts and questioned certain events. Is there something the US Holocaust Museum and Natl Geo doesn't want you to know or want you to question?
The last part of this show was the toughest to watch,of course. Imagining the horror of being walked to your death along with your children. I am not sure what message you can take out of that horror other than what I found myself utterring--"there is no god."
Noberto Garcia is gay!
Very good work until the end. The forensic analysis was a joke. They had multiple pictures of Hoecker, a very wimpy-looking officer, and the "mached" him with an enlisted man on the ramp that looks like he could have broker Hoecker in half. The frightening thing was that the LAPD forensics guy agreed with them! Their theory was the Hoecker knew there would be SS photographers there that day, so he took off his officer's uniform and put on an enlisted man's uniform. Who knows where he came up with the 30 pounds of additional muscle to put on too. Insanity.
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