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Welsh Corgi Afraid of Weird Common Sounds
Our Dog Raider Bear runs out of the room anytime ANY of us hiccup. I mean he RUNS to get away from the sound. He does the same thing when my DAUGHTER COUGHS, but NOT when anyone else coughs. His ears perk up at the first sound, then he is OUT of THERE. What is UP with THAT? I read somewhere that he associates these things to something unpleasant in his past but I cannot figure it out. I also read that herding dogs can often be triggered by certain pitched sounds. Can anyone help?
16 Replies
September 23, 2009 2:17 AM
Hi!Firstly how do you all react when the dog runs off? It is very important not to show sympathy..dogs don't understand human sympathy to them it's just attention and we don't want to give our dogs attention for bad behaviour :=) If this was my dog I would put him on a lead and walk around with him making hiccup sounds.. At first just a couple of times.. when he tries to run, ignore it just hold on the lead and stand still. When he calms down praise him and start walking with him again..Keep practicing a few times a day ( but don't overload the dog) and when he stops trying to run away (which he will in time) give him a treat for staying calm and praise him =)
As for your daughter coughing hmm! Maybe here could be done a similar exercise as the previous but this time your daughter could do it, depending on how old your daughter is?
Yes herding dog's have a thing with pitched sounds, not all do of course but most that I know have problems with certain sounds. My BC is scared of a starter pistol, some one chopping wood with an axe and using a wheelbarrow :=)
September 26, 2009 10:07 AM
Hi there,
Thanks for replying!
I sent you an e-mail relative to this...
You are the BEST for helping...
-Elle-
October 2, 2009 3:05 PM
Hello Elle!
I'm so very sorry but I think I have taken your email off by accident :=( If possible could you please send it again!
September 24, 2009 5:20 PM
For this one if their is no harm, no foul. I know my dogs and when they have hiccups, they get upset at it, they can't contol what they do in the house. For me, and now, we try to calm them down some, would ask them to hold their breath, but that doesn't appear to work with dogs. For you daughters caugh, I might stay out of the way on that one. The dog running is probably concern, my thought, and I wouldn't want to fix that unless the kid did.
For this one, then you redirect the behavior. Make hicups fun for the dog. I did a dog bark once and found out my dogs got very interested in me when I did it. Hicup and then bark, hicup, then bark. Change it up on the dog noises.
For the kid, I would not get involved much. For me I would not want to fool with the basic instinct of a dog tryigng to protect the human, even it that is running. Your daughter needs to do that on her own. For her, it is still redirect. If she is sick she probably needs a dog laying by her so call the dog and redirect it to I feel bad I would like you with me. If not sick, then cough, and bark or throw a ball, redirect what the dog deems as bad and runs to what is fun and play.
For most humans it is understanding your dog. Dogs with hiccups don't like it much and most people find it funny, so that reinforces that that is bad with the laughing. For the coughing, dogs often spit up with a cough, and it is on the carpet and someing humans need to clean up and dog does not think and humans gruble about it some.
Dogs actually are easy. Something they think is bad or afraid of, then you try to redirect that to fun for the dog, not the human. laughing is never fun for a dog. Now on bad behavior, then human can use all the stuff that will let the dog know it did not do well. Laughing at a dog that runs into all wall cause it is full out running and not paying attention, that is redirect. ..
I will say, I will not do much dog stuff with a kid, as long as the dog is socialized. There is some stuff that is dog I will try my best of not breaking out of the dog and kid protecting, I will stay away from. For kids, it is best to tring the kid, in most cases.
For me I don't want to break dog out of dog, and for dogs and kids, they match up real good. I stay away from that as far as I can. I will try to train a child not to do to a dog that might mean mean a bite. As the major human, you can put them both in time outs, and both have about the same limit of not being active.
There are things you can do without messing up the relationship.
September 26, 2009 10:10 AM
Hi there!
Thanks so much for your help....
I sent you an e-mail relative to it so check it out...
Hey fellow Dog whisperer forumites, the woofing back WORKS!
I AM, however, glad there is no home video of it...
Lord knows our family is WEIRD enough...(;o)
-Elle-
September 26, 2009 5:32 PM
For responding, I did get Elle's note to me and there was a big thing she left out of her orrigial post. The dog in quesion is 14 years old, sorry Elle, I had to let all know, it really does change answers.
On the dog barking, it really has worked for me but I will not use it outside, and limit it a bunch, the bark can't be viewed as a command. For dog training, I will do what I think might work, it don't have to be standard. For afraid dog, in my younger years I would get on all fours and wag may ass and try to show dog stuff to the one that was afraid. If that did not work, then I tuned, on all fours and tried something else.
For me, no training is 123 and the dog is trained. That helps, as treats can. That is not dog though. For the human, once a pack leader, all dogs are different, some have fears, some have now fears. That is what a human needs to understand before working with a dog. For all of my dogs, nothing ever worked all the time, I had to change, dog was the dog.
BTW, on me doing all fours and wagging my butt, didn't work. I only took time and something I can cross off my list of things that might be effecive. For my current two, both have totally different personalities, both need sightly different obeadiance training. Wife and I are still learning on this. Dogs are still learning about the interaction the humans might think is good.
For me, it is not teaching a dog to sit, that is easy. It is teaching the dog rules and those to abide by all the time. The human being happy is better than a treat. For me it goes back to basic instincts, human is the pack leader, we do the food, we do the water, and dogs can't. For dogs, you never know what you will have. Some might be followers, some might want to fight for pack leadership, and most people can't out fight a dog. You change what you do with the dogs personality. I have never ever seen that this is the rule and the 123 will work for all dogs. Yes the rules are good, but you have to bend them to your dogs personality, and I have yet to see two with the same.
September 26, 2009 6:07 PM
Dear Webmaster:
So Sorry for my manner in responding....
UNAPPROVED...ZAP!
Forgot my password...
No TREATS for MEEEEEEEEE! (;o)
Why are we all so caught up in the AGE of the dog?
I was looking for advice and/or explanation only on the reaction of HERDING dogs to high pitched sounds...
And I am MOST THANKFUL for the advice and responses I received via this site....
Thanks to those (we are ALL B-U-S-Y) who tried to help...
For MY DOG, the woof-woofing works to reduce the stress caused by high pitched sounds...
It worked for HIM, it may NOT work for yours if in similar circumstances...
I THOUGHT that the visitors to The Dog Whisperer's Site would be able to read advice, digest it, and APPLY to their own circumstances...
I am THANKFUL for the site, though, and to ANYONE who tries to help..
Kind of like my dog....
GOOD DOG...
Best DOG in the World!
Woof! Woof!
-Elle-
September 29, 2009 11:30 PM
Elle, some stuff with dogs and sounds can be attibuted to age. Maybe not always but sometimes.
For me there are lots of factors on training and for a dog that is trained, helping them. One is age, one is the invriornment, and it can change with many dogs.
For me, there are lots of conserdations you do when doing a dog, not just what you might say the dog is and does. For me, I have a dog that is getting older, not certain of the age, somewhere between 10 and maybe 12. For the years we have had the dog,it has changed and we choose to change with it.
For me, we owned a house 5 miles from ours. The dogs we had had to make an adjustment, and we had to adjust to them somewhat. Overall the yard got smaller, house got way bigger. House rules canged some. For old house, I'd never think about doing off leash, even it I have always done it with dogs, but now I have the opporturnity to do it for real and real training on not just letting a dog run but control over the run. In the past, mostly, I would need to take my dogs somewhere other than home to let them run, now I can do it, right now, where they live.
I can not say that I would ever treat a pup the way I woud a young dog. I also know an odder dog will never be looked at the same as a younger one. If I was in an appartment, I would limit my choice of dogs, and for me that woud be zero. For that invironment, cats work well.
I take into account lots of stuff with my dogs. They now in the morning, one of the things I will do is clean their eyes. I also might do a nose temp with them, especially if they are acting a bit differnet than normal. For my older dog, this morning, it got eyes cleaned and nose was way too warm, too hot for me. I took hot nose into account on what I might do with the dog. For today, didn't really matter, but in the past a hot nose could tell me some about how the dog might react to a nomal day. Today the dog reacted pretty normally, but I had my radar up a bit on it being different. Sometimes with a very warm nose dogs will react differently than normal.
Three are, to me lots of factors in a dog and how the human reacts to them. Age is one, sickness is another, breed can be a factior, size means something. If you asked if you dog could learn at its age, I would respond that maybe better than a pup.
But if all you can read is just the fact that the note seems to be a difference in behavior, not standard for years, then age comes into play, or could.
Now on the wolf wolf thing, I lucked into that because I did it once with current dogs. I limit it some, but everytime I have done it,. both will run to me. To some extent, both will come to each of their names, but not as quick as a dog noise. If I could do a grrr loud enough, figure that would give me the same response.
In shore, age is just a factor, to me, on how you might wish to treat a dog. For a dog I will ofen do a nose temp by hand to decide if what my next choice might be. Fore me, if a dog acts way different that normal, I night dog a body check to see it I can find a pain point in the dog. For me I can't take the next steps before I take as much inforation as I can gather on my own.
Maybe just for me, age is a factor. For me a dog that has always been good but got to be old, then house rules change for the dog.
A young dog, if a mistake happens in the house, then traing takes place, for me, an old dog, maybe it is overlooked. Depends n the dog, all dogs age diffently as most people do.
October 2, 2009 3:10 PM
Hello Elle!
I think it's great if you find something that works for you and your dog :=) Yes the idea of this sight is to seek help and hopefully find the answer to the problem :=) I hope to see you again soon on here and please keep me updated on how you and your dog are doing :=D
October 2, 2009 3:40 PM
Hi Elle,
"I THOUGHT that the visitors to The Dog Whisperer's Site would be able to read advice, digest it, and APPLY to their own circumstances..."
Yes, that is how the site should work and hope it will do so in the future too.
I'm sorry, but only just now have read your post.
Could the answer to your dogs dislike of highpitched sounds, be simply that his ears are very sensitive to those sounds. Plainly put he doesn't like them, I have owned a dog that had a problem with highpitched sounds and she never learned not to react to them.
Just a thought, wish you all the very best :=)
October 2, 2009 5:07 PM
Blizzard, in this case, it really is not a high pitched noise, caughing is not high pitched. I can only do guesses on a rescue dog. Elle is pretty good with dogs, I have asked her to do answers here. With her, I did the age factor, and mentioned it because it might mean something, but in this case abosulty nothing. Once the "bark" worked, I think she is capabable of trying to reshape it.
My guess now is the dogs past master may have passed away and made the noises the dog now is fearful of. I do know age is not a factor. I am confident the owner is not the problem. For me, it will be a past life that no one will fully know. I have had many rescue dogs now, and most I could get them out of the past but two, never could work. I could calm them down, when present, but humans can not be with their dog 24 7. For me, it was a water dog that hated water. Dog was fine and it only became somewhat of a problem when dog moved with us and had lots of places to swim. Other dog I won't go into my best guess, it involves torture. In each case, wonderful dogs, well behaved, just had a bit of quirk to them.
On your dog with high pitched noises, did you ever try a dog wishtle to see if in fact that was the case? I do assume you talked that problem over with a vet.
BTW, for my past dog that did not like water,it swam well, I never throw a dog into water, it is their discisson on getting in. The dog fell in once at our pool. Only forcing I will do with water is baths and a bath does not always mean being put into a tub of water. I got the other dog to be a good social dog, but there was a noise that we could not change, no matter how much we layed by the dog to calm it down. For that dog, just getting it not afraid of people was a major accomplishment and socialized with all she met and introduced to became great human friends.
Also all should use your vet for qestions. You pay the same preice without quesions as you do with them.
October 3, 2009 1:04 AM
Meccash,
I think by now you might have understood that Elle's post was a query not a cry for help!!! She was interested in hearing other people's views and experiences particularly of herding dogs reactions to high pitched sounds, that is ALL!
My experiences with herding breeds (8 of them up to present time) is that none of them were happy about a very high pitched sound!! IT IS NOT A MEDICAL PROBLEM!
Even my whistling would make them react to me differently, cant blame them on that one though :)
I know you dont have any children, so you would not know how high a young girls sneeze or cough might sound!! My youngest daughter's sneeze still manages to make me "jump" and she is 26 years old!!!
And YES, I have trained all my dogs to come using dog whistle, which is ONLY USED if for some reason the dog has gone out of the reach of my voice (IE. emergency use only).
"My guess now is the dogs past master may have passed away and made the noises the dog now is fearful of. I do know age is not a factor. I am confident the owner is not the problem."
I have only been present at 2 deaths of close family members and in neither case was there ANY HIGH SOUND OR SNEEZING AND COUGHING!!
"I got the other dog to be a good social dog, but there was a noise that we could not change, no matter how much we layed by the dog to calm it down."
Well, I'm NOT surprised!!! You laid DOWN with the dog?? I suppose talking soothingly "it's OK, don't worry, there's a good dog" or something similar.
YOU WERE JUST TELLING THE DOG IT*S OK TO BE SCARED OF THE SOUND!! Look even us the pack leaders are lying down next to you (we must be scared too)!
Meccash, get a life, get real and stop talking rubbish and UPSETTING PEOPLE, who come to ask questions on this forum!!
Learn to think before you let your fingers run wild on the keyboard AND PLEASE; PLEASE,,, USE A SPELLING CHECK PROGRAM!!!
The other safe and trustworthy people on this forum are, K-Nine, Doggone, Dawg Pro, Sandie and Tracey!
October 3, 2009 5:05 PM
Ok just because I have not had children, does not mean I do not know about them or been around them. We have a neighbors child we met at 9 and not is 15. He has spend many nights with us, and I began to teach in to drive my car. To me, young adults are treated that way.
As far as high pitched stuff with hearding dogs, Elle gave that credance. Foir me that all hearding dogs to not like high pictched noises is not right. I have seen two groups of boarder collies herd cattle, one with wistles, not dog ones, a human one that was way high pitched. The other I never saw what the human command was, maybe a dog that was just pure good enough to do it on its own. I will say, I have no experience with Corgies.
On the lay down and calm a dog down for its fears is very normal dog training, or did you miss Cesars eppisode on the bomb dog that got afraid in Irac. Now I did that long before I saw a Cesar show. That was the last I tried, and it was a new behavior, for what the dog thought was reason, to begin a new fear, and I did try other things. For one dog, it worked, for another, never discovered something that would. All can be worth a try, as long as you do not harm the dog.
I do resent that because you say I have no childern, I do not know about them. How many have you played football with over the last 20 years or so (American football), How many have you did basketball with and teach them the proper way to shoot and what to work on? I'd help with volley ball but no beach here and so not much beach volley ball. I've sat and done homework with a kid that just did not get something. I did not teach him the school way, I tought him the way I did it in my head, and he brezzed trough it.
I will say of the click of three now, at least you gave reasons for you disagrent on my post. I have posted back on what my thoughts are about what you posted.
October 4, 2009 2:00 AM
"Foir me that all hearding dogs to not like high pictched noises is not right. I have seen two groups of boarder collies herd cattle, one with wistles, not dog ones, a human one that was way high pitched."
Yes, (boring, boring :=( ) a lot of sheep dogs are trained to perform to sound of a whistle, does not mean its a pleasing sound to them! Its a sound which can be affective over longer distances and wind and rain noise and bleating flocks of sheep, that makes perfect sense to me. My dogs have always been taught to come when whistled (dog whistle or me whistling, so if conditions require I can get them to return to my side)!
I obviously did NOT write my reply correctly, apologies.
But then again English is not my mother tongue, Finnish is!
I didn't mean to have a dig about you not having children, just making a comment how high the sound of a little girls sneeze of cough and SQUEEL can be.
I have 4 children, 2 boys and 2 girls, so yes, I have done sports, football (don't do Yankee football, we do soccer!), baseball, basketball, hiking ,biking, boxing,wrestling,swimming, skiing,skating, ice-hockey, ski-jumping etc. And caring for them when they have been poorly and hugging them and kissing them better when they have hurt themselves. That has been 24/7 with NO BREAK for all through their childhood and teenage years until they have flown the nest!
I have had to endure the terrible all consuming grief, when my oldest son died at the age of 20!!
My daughters and other son (then 4,14 and 17) lost their brother, that was 21 years ago and I'm still grieving. That will stay with me to the end of my days.
So yes, Meccash, I have even taught my youngest daughter at home for the last 3 years of high school and her test results were good, I think I can safely say "BEEN THERE, DONE IT, GOT THE T-SHIRT" :=)
October 3, 2009 9:43 AM
Hi Elle,
Since your inbox is already overflowing I thought my 2 cents couldn’t hurt.
High Pitched Sounds: Dog whistles are high pitched. Ultra high. Any high pitch sound has the potential to ALSO include ULTRASONIC SOUND which dogs can hear and we can’t.
It’s takes a bit of puckering up but I can whistle in the ultrasonic range with practically no effort. As a matter of fact I can torment my wife by silently tormenting the dogs by whistling this way.
Sound travels in waves called frequencies. Different dogs vary in their sensitivity and irritation to different ultrasonic frequencies! Just like normal sounds than can also be painful to a dog.
Now we know that in conjunction with the very loud and startling effects of coughs and sneezes, they could easily contain ultrasonic sound at painful levels and that SOME herding breeds in particular are more sensitive to than others.
The average pain level for audible or normal sounds in dogs is almost identical to humans. If it hurts your ears then it’s hurting your dog’s ears too!
You can desensitize dogs and people to almost any sound simply by exposing them to it more often… provided that the sound isn’t painful!
You can also download both hiccups and coughing sound effects for free on the web that you can play to help desensitize your dog to these sounds! Just start at low volume and work your way up and give your dog very small treats as you progress to make it a positive experience. Completely avoid giving him praise and affection while he is showing “any” signs of stress and do not allow him to run away.
That ends my specific advice to try and answer your questions and to attempt to provide an easy and workable solution. With regret, the remainer is to address and on going problem here on our forum. Meccash!
For the record: DEAD PEOPLE typically do not abuse their dogs with sound or anything else. Apparently it’s a rampant problem in Texas where Meccash lives but for the rest of the planet it is their silence that is deafening!
As for correct spelling and so Elle can appreciate why it’s such an issue: We have people who come here who do not speak English and must use online translation programs in order to communicate with us. If it isn’t spelled correctly then it can’t be translated. Two of our regular advisors are Finnish and Meccash’s insufferable spelling (and horrible grammar and composition) is a constant source of irritation in addition to his near total lack of dog training knowledge and overall stupidity. He is a 58-59 year old child who just won’t quit!!!
We do try be lighthearted and openly sharing as you had hoped it would be here but Meccash keeps lowering the bar by incessantly picking away at the good advisors’ comments and advise. He also doesn’t have a shred of respect for any of the professional dog trainers who also advise here and will frequently go out of his way to undermine their professional advise. We don't try to tell him how to be an accountant!
We only have ONE BAD APPLE and that’s Meccash and he keeps spoiling it for everyone else!
I hope that in the end and that somewhere in here, we have still managed to give you the answers you were looking for despite our ROTTEN APPLE.
I always regret when someone’s hopefully happy experience becomes tainted like this but we are powerless to remove the cause of the problem which is Mecaash. We do not have any live moderators who oversee this forum like the other boards have and so there is no one to complain too.
Be Well and Train Well.
The other safe and trustworthy advisors on this site include Tracey, Blizzard, Sandie, Dawg Pro and Doggone!
October 3, 2009 12:45 PM
Hello all! Just posting my reply to all of this for others here...
Yo Blizzard et al!
Thanks so VERY much for the advice etc...
I seem to have opened a virtual flood gate with my inquiry etc... if you look at the responses...
Basically, I was trying to find a SIMPLE WAY to ease my 14 year old corgis increasing anxiety to the sound of hiccups and my daughter's cough...
OMG the comment relative to a girl's cough/sneeze pitch and decibel level is so RIGHT ON!
I should probably mention that my daughter is gifted vocally and able to sing descant which is very very high soprano..
She is 13 years old and can BREAK GLASS if she wants to...LOL!
In any event, the low woof-woof in response to his running at LEAST makes him less nervous and anxious...
He has always been afraid of her coughing and hiccups (not new) but because of his increasing age, I sought a way to decrease his agitation...
Now, Meccash was only trying to help and most intelligent people read responses to forum questions etc. with a grain of salt...
Not all techniques work for all dogs, but most dogs are more tolerant than most people I know...
I DO believe they all bring their individual life experiences to the table like we do, though..
NO WORRIES about any of this...
I seem to have" met" MANY FOLKS on this forum (and others) whose intentions are good and whose English is kind-of bad...
I continue to just appreciate their taking the time to try to help...
That's RIGHT! I'm talking about ALL OF YOU so THANKS!!!! (:o)
BE SAFE...BE WELL and happy dog companioning!!!!
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