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Teaching two commands and then adding them together!
Well..as most of you know I compete with my BC! Next year we have the FH1 and also TOKO. So now I'm trying to teach him a few new commands as they are demanded in the TOKO competition :=) One of them is a command that is easiest taught to a puppy and that's "stand". I think we now understand the stand command pretty well so now I'm adding the other part. Now he has to do the jump and stay on the other side standing :=) It took me a while to work it out but in the end I found a solution: On the other side of the jump I put a treat ( I have my dog with me so he sees where the treat is).. I put the treat quite far away, we then return to the other side. I then give the jump command and while he is getting the treat I move to the front of the jump ( standing in between and preventing him from jumping back over). When he comes back I give the stand command.. When he is standing on the other side looking at me I give him another treat and then lots of praises :=D When it doesn't work we start from the beginning... My BC's biggest problem is that he always gets too excited on jump so we can only practice a few times When you want to teach your dog two different commands and then add them together always remember to teach both things separately and keep them separate until the dog really understands what the command means.. otherwise you end up with a dog that is confused :=)
When I add two different commands together I give treats at the end of both separate commands for a long time..this way I'm reinforcing the command and my dog understands that he is doing it correctly. I never take the sequence to the end if something goes wrong in between instead we start from the beginning. I never tell him off for the mistake.. we just start again! I want to keep the dog interested so we train the new commands for short times and do other more basic obedience more!
Just like us humans dogs can get bored of doing too much of the same thing :=) Some weeks we train daily other weeks we train on just a couple of days and sometimes we have a complete break! (This complete break isn't recommended if a dog isn't trained to the advanced stage) Or so I have been told :=D BTW TOKO is an obedience competition and FH1 is a special tracking competition..
12 Replies
October 30, 2009 5:35 PM
I am confused. Is the dog hopping over the bar on it's hind legs? So explain what the STAND command means in competition first. My stand is on all 4's.
What command is being given that makes the dog perform both actions together as one? (The adding together part).
For example and as you know: I taught my big dog DOWN. Then I taught her PLAY DEAD from a down. I brought (added) those two ACTIONS together with the BANG command.
Now I shoot her with my finger and say BANG BANG and she goes down and plays dead. For some reason she only gets wounded on the 1st shot and it takes a 2nd BANG to finish her off and keep her head down on the floor.
That is what I invision as adding commands together because that's just how "I" do it. I need to understand your way of thinking now.
October 31, 2009 7:00 AM
Sorry...I sometimes write in a confusing way :=/
Stand is all fours... I use the jump command and then I am teaching him a hand sign for him to stay standing on the other side...I didn't mention the hand sign because we haven't got that far yet..we are in the process of jump and treat and stand and treat.. The hand sign is there all the time but he hasn't YET worked it out.. :=) Any ideas from you K-Nine are more than welcome :=D
October 31, 2009 7:07 AM
That's it..now you've really got my brain working..heh :=)
Or should I just teach a completely new word for the sequence?? Is using a hand sign and command at the same time a bad idea?? Thanks for your reply K-Nine you're really got me thinking about this one now :=) I don't want to confuse my dog...so any ideas would be appreciated :=DD
October 31, 2009 4:58 PM
I wasn’t trying to advise you, just trying to understand the process of exactly what was happening.
If your group has a command standard then you should use what they use. I also don’t think it matters if you use 2 commands or 1 as long as you get the results you need.
Dog’s spot body language as quickly as they hear spoken words so I would think that using hand signals as well is a kind of safety net. They will either hear or see what their next command is.
I’ve watched competitions where a command is a single action and means that you JUMP and STOP and that is all that you do unless it’s followed by another command like MOVE, OVER (go over there) or GO GO GO all of which means keep going to the next item.
When I first began home agility I actually used both JUMP followed by STOP on a "complete" agility course. I used STOP whenever I wanted her to stop. Now she “mostly” follows my lead… If I’m moving then she keeps moving and if I stop she stops. Because of HEEL training she tends to Auto-Sit allot when I stop or if I STOP command her.
I think the difference between our training styles is that I trained each item all by itself so we always stopped after a command anyway since there wasn't a next item to go to. Later I put them together into an agility course and had to work on keeping her going. I think you trained the opposite way on a complete agility course. You started by trying to keep the BC going right from the start. Now you have to stop him and it may harder to do.
These are training style differences… not matters of right vs. wrong or even better vs. worse. All that depends on the trainer.
As you saw in my video it is possible to rapid fire commands and have the dog respond correctly and pretty fast too BUT my way may not be fast enough to win a competition.
I "THINK" you want to give the least amount of direction that get's you a correct response so your dog can move at maximum speed. I would bet that you could even teach your BC to run the course without any or very few voice commands.
November 2, 2009 12:00 PM
Thanks K-Nine :=)
I literally got a headache from trying to work this one out :=( This is a real challenge for me..If I want I can use two words but it would be nice if I could get him to do it on one command :=D I'll have to give this one more thought... But always enjoy getting post and ideas from others :=) Especially enjoy reading about experiences :=)
November 2, 2009 3:38 PM
Hi, sorry, this it probably unrelated but since you are already talking about BCs and I have a BC question...
SO basically, my neighbour has a BC male who is fairly well trained now (he is 3yrs old) and he likes me to play fetch with him, which is great because I like that too. However he is really quite clever and I feel needs more mental stimulation than just playing fetch so can you suggest what else we can do (nowhere to do agility, I can only go with him to a fallow field not far from the house).
Also, he can't stand being on the leash. Any suggestions for that?
Other than that he is great, i don't really need to even speak, he seems to read my mind as to what I want him to do most of the time.
November 2, 2009 5:19 PM
I JUST did advice for a dog that doesn’t like his leash in the topic “Where is the Thread list and the Forum Search>” located at,
http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.com/ngcforums/dog-whisperer/2009/11/where-is-the-thread-list-and-the-forum-search.html.
For agility you can go very easy with just some boards and chairs or footstools and that was also covered in that topic. Make the dog PLACE (go to the place I’m pointing at and SIT) on items above the ground like boxes, chairs and picnic tables.
You can do scent trailing, and Tracey did a whole topic on that. I hide dog toys and start by letting them see where I hide it and then I work to where I have to give them directions to find it. I’ll hide a treat under one of a number of plastic cups and the dog has to knock over the right cup. (the old Shell Game but with a dog). Teach fun tricks like roll over and play dead… stuff like that. There are WHOLE BOOKS on all the extra stuff you can do.
Be Well and Train Well.
November 3, 2009 1:34 AM
Hi!
Yes BC:s are a very intelligent breed :=) They need lot's of brain activity to keep them happy and stop them from finding things to do by themselves.. when they start thinking things up to do themselves this normally includes destroying the house :=( I will pull back up my topic: Teaching a dog to sit in front of you..you can find hints on tracking! Tracking can be done anywhere..it's easy and when the dog works it out they really enjoy it :=) Also activity toys are great indoors too.. we use an activity ball in which you put treats and when the dog rolls the ball correctly the treats fall out :=) But like K-Nine mentioned you can make the games up yourself..Agility like K-Nine mentioned can be done too :=) Fetch games I think are something that BC:s never seem to get enough of :=) I always stop the game though while it's still fun..preventing the game turning in to a boring game :=) Obedience is too a great way to satisfy a BC.. they love to please and if you read the topic on treats or toys..there's many ways of getting a dog to work :)
It would be really nice to hear more about how you two get on ect.. after all BC:s are the breed that stole my heart :=D
Please feel free to ask questions when you want and I'll reply.. I might not have the answers to everything but luckily there are a few very professional people on here too :)
November 3, 2009 2:51 PM
Precicison Grace,
This one is a bit hard because it is not your dog. One thing I found years and years ago on doing dog senses is hid and go seek, with food. When dog it not looking, hid treats around your yard, all easy for dog to get, ie don't put one on the roof. Have one easy to find, so dog can begin to learn what is goind on. Good use of dogs nose, over stuff, maybe at reach for a dog on top of something, or under, maybe under something. This game is limited somewhat, dog will learn it and get really good at it. For mine, just behind an open door was near the hardest to find, they ran into the room to sniff, never checked the door. Once they found a couple, they checked behind the door right away.
Another thing you might want to do is tricks, and many dogs don't learn shake hands. Easy trick, but mind of the dog gets worked by doing right hand to right paw. Not left paw to human's right hand. It takes work, but you are with the dog, you are using the brain of the dog, and it is a sit down thing to do.
Also a dog walk maybe does both of you good. Ask your neighbor if it is ok for you to do it, and what the rules are if you do.
Just in case you are lucky with the dog, you might try a frisby instead of a ball. I haven't found many dogs that are good at it but if so, it is lots of fun.
November 4, 2009 11:44 AM
Thank you all for such useful and comprehensive comments. I really appreciate it.
I've spent today half an hour playing with him again but this time I asked the owner for the lead and made the dog earn his play by making him try and walk properly on the lead. He more or less got it but he was so excited about playing that he was much better at walk afterwards. I don't think he gets quite enough exercise for a BC so he is always highly strung.
I've tried playing hide and seek with him before by hiding his favourite toy in the bushed and making him find it but he didn't seem too thrilled about it. Also the last couple of times we played fetch with the tennis ball, when the ball would end up in tall grass, he would sometimes have trouble finding it and would wait for me to come and find it for him. I get the feeling he is not very keen on using his nose which is a bit weird.
I'll ask the owner about using treats next time, but I am trying to work up his confidence so I can ask to take the dog on a really long walk into the fields because I reckon he needs a proper good run. I ran with him a little just up and down the edge of the field where we played today and he seemed to love that.
I'll also try a frisbee. The owner mentioned before that the dog is good with catching those and I have two old ones languishing in a drawer so that's definitely something else to try.
Thanks so much again and I'll keep you posted of how we get on.
November 5, 2009 12:54 AM
Hi!
It's lovely to read about someone who helps a neighbour out :=D I think you're doing really well with that BC.. All dogs have the instinct to track smells..some of them just need a bit of help! BUT when the dog works it out... they really enjoy it :=) You could try hiding treats instead of a toy..it might be more motivating for the dog.. maybe leave a line of treats.. in other words make it really easy for the dog to follow :=) When he gets the idea.. you can make it harder :=D
November 4, 2009 10:11 PM
On my BC mix, other dog was a sheltie, it was not good with a ball after about 3 throws. A friend an I worked on it some, but not enough. For me, all dogs I own get a chance on a frisbee, just not many have been good at it. Of the two that I have had that were good, both had bird fectching genes in them.
I love that you are talking to your neighbor about his/her dog. For the dogs around here, you could have a bunch, and both of mine to walk and play with. All like a bit of exercise with thier dogs, but the dogs would love someone else to walk with, dogs never loose the desire to be out and walking. They can always nap later.
On the pic I do, my dogs had been up and going for about 8 or 9 hours, with lots of people. Lots of running, and lots of playing, some other stuff. They stayed pretty much in the possition of the pic for nearly 24 hours, just moved to were the humans were.
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